Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Edited by LarryT on May 10th 2024 at 5:50:03 AM
Have a duo of CM's I think need a rewrite: Axlerod and Professor Z from Cars 2.
"Sir Miles Axlerod and Professor "Z" Zündapp are a pair of "lemon" cars who want power and to hurt all other cars simply because they were laughed at for being older models. After they buy up one of the world's largest oil reserves, Professor Z develops a weaponized camera that causes the alternative fuel Allinol to explode and decompose, and Axlerod orchestrates him to use it on the racers of the Grand World Prix, severely damaging the cars, to paint alternative fuels as dangerous and drive the world back to oil, which will enrich the villainous duo. Z personally murders two spies, crushing one and torturing then exploding the other, on Axlerod's orders before the two try to murder the last user of Allinol, Lightning McQueen, planning to make his best friend Tow Mater watch before killing him as well. When their weaponized camera fails, the two plant a bomb on Mater and try to detonate it in a pit stop, uncaring that it is filled with dozens of other cars, and even when their plan fails, Z spitefully activates a timer on the bomb to destroy whoever he can."
So I have a few problems with this writeup. First, it says that Axlerod ordered the death of the two British spies, when nothing confirms this is the case. Second, I think the writeup contains too many run-on sentences. Third, it gets the name of the World Grand Prix wrong.
Here's my idea for a new writeup:
Sir Miles Axlerod and Professor "Z" Zündapp are a pair of "lemon" cars who want to hurt all other cars simply because they were laughed at for being older models. After they buy up one of the world's largest oil reserves, Axlerod invents Allinol, a phony alternative fuel, and orchestrates the World Grand Prix, a series of races where the racers are required to use Allionol. Z then invents a weaponised camera and, under Axlerod's orders, uses it on several racers to blow up their engines, risking their lives as a result. Axlerod and Z plan to paint alternative fuels as dangerous and drive the world back to oil, which will make their oil reserve a gold mine and turn them into the most powerful cars in the world. Z personally murders two spies who try to stop their plans, crushing one into a cube and torturing the other to death with the camera, deliberately making the latter as slow as possible. When Lightning McQueen refuses to get rid of his Allionol, Axlerod orders Z to kill him with the camera, with the two of them kidnapping his best friend Tow Mater in order to make him watch before they kill him as well. When this fails, the two trick Mater into heading to his pit stop, where they try to detonate a bomb hidden in his hood, uncaring that the pit stop is filled with dozens of innocent cars. Upon being caught, Z tricks Mater into activating the bomb, intending to kill everyone surrounding him in a final act of spite.
Edited by Evanpotter09 on May 10th 2024 at 4:26:21 PM
What, like it's hard?
Was recently rewatching The Avengers: United They Stand, and found that some parts of Kang's entry was wrong, mainly that he never actually said he was responsible for killing the Avengers of his time. Suggested rewrite. (Bolded parts from original are replaced by bolded parts in new)
Original:
- "Kang": Kang himself, the titular Conqueror, is accidentally freed from his temporal prison after having conquered the 31st century. Having destroyed the Avengers of his time, Kang's takeover of Earth killed millions and reduced billions more to Kang's slaves. Intending to resume his takeover of all space-time, starting backward from the 31st century to conquer epoch and waste countless more lives, Kang even ages all of New York to the point of near-oblivion just as a display of his power.
- "Kang": Kang himself, the titular Conqueror, is accidentally freed from his temporal prison after having conquered the 41st century. In the future, Kang's takeover of Earth killed millions and reduced billions more to Kang's slaves. Intending to resume his takeover of all space-time, starting backward from the 31st century to conquer epoch and waste countless more lives, Kang even ages all of New York to the point of near-oblivion just as a display of his power.
So, someone mentioned DMC 4's Sanctus and I think he still counts, but he needs a rewrite I think. It reads more like a Hate Sink entry at points and glosses over some of his more heinous crimes.
that's a little too long
Go for it Polar, it's been a minute but I agree both that he keeps and his entry could use a facelift to sell his deeds better.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll take care of Kang; other rewrites to Drafts please.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
Hey everyone, just wanted to give a heads up - I whiiiiiiiiiiile back, after some unilateral moves, you may recall that I started going through all the subpages and making recommendations on how to standardize the formats of the pages based on a standard we agreed on on the policy thread. I got all the way to the Music page... and then real life decided to be a bitch and I stopped. I just finished my semester, so I've got some time on my hands and would like to rectify that. I'm gonna begin by going back through all of the pages I already checked just to make sure things haven't changed since I first checked them, and I'll be posting any suggestions that I may have later tonight.
The Moron
Alright, as I said I would, I doublechecked all the pages that I looked at before. I don't know if I just missed a lot of things or if things have changed a lot since then, but there were still a lot of pages that could use some changes. I've got them here. As a reminder, this is the guideline we decided on.
- Monster: Bionicle: Add a "Franchise-Wide" AC header to the page and then a "Specific Works" AC header for the last entry so that it's not just a wall of bullet points (plus, there's precedent with pages like Monster: The Bill)
- Monster: Buffyverse:
- Folder in Angelus and the Senior Partners
- Under "Others", push "Literature" and "Miscellaneous" to the AC level instead of folder title
- Monster: Call of Duty: Push the header formats back one level - as in folder titles become AC, AC becomes !! - to more cleanly split the two Modern Warfare trilogies
- Monster: Daredevil: Folder in "Other Earth-616 Characters"
- Monster: The DCU: Folder in then "Flashpoint" characters
- Monster: Disney: Under the Animated Canon, move the folder titles to AC titles
- Monster: Dragon Ball: Push the header formats one level back so that the folder titles under "Z" can become AC titles
- Monster: Godzilla: Make the folders under "Tohoverse" and "Other Media" AC titles
- Monster: Gundam: Move the header formats back one level so that the folder titles at the beginning can become AC titles
- Monster: James Bond: Folder in the two radio drama characters
- Monster: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Push the format one level back so folder titles become AC titles
- Monster: League of Legends: Same thing
- Monster: Marvel Animation: Under "Marvel Animated Universe", push all the headers back one level (with the AC becoming !!!) to make it similar to the pages for Star Wars)
- Monster: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Under the first section, make the folder titles AC headers
- Monster: Marvel Comics: Under "Marvel 2099", make the folder titles AC headers and change the "Earth-2099" link to the link to the comic so that the tree underneath it can be pushed back
- Monster: Marvel Literature: Under the Novelizations section, push all the headers one level back so that folder titles become AC headers
- Monster: Power Rangers: Push the headers back so that the Comics folders can have their titles moved
- Monster: Resident Evil: Push the headers back a level
- Monster: RoboCop: Folder in the "Others" section
- Monster: RWBY Fan Works: Push the headers back so that the War of Remnant section can have its folders become AC headers
- Monster: Sonic the Hedgehog: Push the format back a level
- Monster: Super Sentai: Exact opposite of everything else - the AC titles should become folder titles
- Monster: Tales Series: Push the format back a level
- Monster: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Push the format under "Comic Books" back one level
- Monster: Tolkien's Legendarium: Folder in the "Others" section of Literature
- Monster: The X-Files: Add in AC headers to break up the wall of entries
- Monster: X-Men: Push the format back a level to match the Spider-Man page
- Monster: Assassin's Creed: We could folder in every example at this point - the page is at 15 examples, and I vaguely recall that being the number when we add folders to everything. Can someone confirm or correct that?
- Monster: Critical Role: Again, it's 15 entries.
- Monster: The Incredible Hulk: I think we can push the header formats back one so that Volume 2 can get its own tree (since it has six entries).
- Monster: Warcraft: It has 16 entries - enough for a folder?
Okay... that's a lot, and it's been a while since I've had to do these changes in bulk, but the bulk of these changes are just moving the heading formats back or forward a level just to standardize folder titles being "Examples" like they are on a majority of the pages. I look forward to questions, comments, concerns, and discussion!
Yeah, I'd be fine with those changes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ditto
I think Star Wars is currently the only one with !!! but there's really no better way.
Edited by ACW on May 10th 2024 at 8:45:33 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I would like to reserve "The Devil's Chord", the most recent episode of Doctor Who. It's true that the series is ongoing but the villain from this episode appears to be a one-off.
Are you allowed to reserve a single episode?
I checked the rules and there doesn't seem to be anything that explicitly forbids it. If there is, please let me know.
The Moron
I mean, if the villain in it is a one-off villain and no one has reserved the show itself, I guess there's nothing saying you can't? But at that point, if no one has reserved the show yet, you might as well just reserve the show itself.
There's this post from Ravok back in 2017:
If the villain lasts until the season finale, we discuss the villain two weeks after the finale regardless whether he survived said finale or not. If the villain dies in an episode other than the finale, we discuss said villain two weeks after that episode where he died. If the villain's "arc" finishes during, say, the MIDDLE of a season, BUT he is still alive (Maybe he gets locked up, or just escapes for the time being), we normally wait until two weeks after the season finale JUST to make sure he doesn't make one last appearance for the season. That's how I look at it, at least.
In this case, the villain in question didn't exactly die but I'd be very surprised if we ever saw them again. So I'm not sure which rule applies exactly.
Update:
There's also this post from ACW:
I'm virtually certain that the villain from this episode falls into the latter category i.e. Monster of the Week.
Edited by LarryMullen on May 10th 2024 at 10:57:04 AM
So, about the MonsterVerse CM discussion four days ago here, adding my new cent...
I think we should just change the YMMV.Monster Verse "See here" redirect back to a full listing. I also, as someone familiar with the work, kinda see Bullman and ACW's points about keeping the Skull Island Kraken off of the Monster.Godzilla listing, because there is no reference to Godzilla or any Godzilla characters within that series. As a thought, could we perhaps compromise on adding a [[note]] to the Monster.Godzilla MonsterVerse section notifying readers to see Monster.King Kong for the Kraken entry?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I would be okay with this.
An Eldritch Troper
@STAR: I agree with all your certain changes and the Incredible Hulk folder for Vol. 2, but I'm not confident about the 15/16 entries thing. I think we can keep the 15/16 entries pages as they are until they get too long.
There are still some subpages not listed here with folders not titled as "Examples", but I'll let you handle that part if you wish to.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
We cool if I knock out a template for a DMC page following ACW's template? I figure I'll just use the Mundus pic with Polar's quote suggestion and the line about Arkham for the page since it's already on Complete Monster.
Yes, sure. Sounds great.
About Sanctus, if it's much worse than the entry shows, then it definitely needs a rewrite. I've been playing for a long time and didn't really pay much attention to the plot. Again, I’m not saying that Sanctus should be discussed. It’s just that from his recording, taking into account his resources, he somehow looks sluggish compared to other monsters. Of course it would be great if he stayed.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on May 11th 2024 at 5:42:01 AM
Cheers, I'll get started then and it looks like Polar might be interested in doing that.
She lives! Does someone mind fixing the placement for Gilver though, idk if that's a prequel to the first game or where he should be slated?
Edited by PassingThrough on May 11th 2024 at 9:03:26 AM
Also quick cut suggestion:
- Bad Influence: Alex is presented as a mysterious and handsome stranger with no apparent background regarding his life. He befriends the shy office worker Michael and offers to teach him to be assertive and indulge in risky behaviors. At first, the lessons are innocuous, and even amusing before things take a dark turn when Alex brutally beats and hospitalizes Michael's rival co-worker. When Michael calls their friendship off as a result, Alex kills a girl Michael slept with in his apartment with a golf club, shows Michael him a homemade Snuff Film of the killing and leaves him as the prime suspect. He then attempts to murder Michael's brother when he finds potentially incriminating evidence on Alex. A murderous sociopath, Alex enjoys corrupting others and justifies himself with claims that people are hypocrites who simply try to play innocent.
He's an asshole but the film has him pop up mysteriously into Michael's life to start fucking with him. He (brutally) kills one person and tries to kill Michael's brother as well but otherwise he's just "ruining the protagonist's life". There isn't a pattern to strengthen his claim and even if he passes the Moral Event Horizon I don't think he's quite at the bar for CM.
First attempt:
Cut Down:
Looking over it, I was able to cut it down 30 words. Also fixed some grammer, and incorrect terms, specifically Rayse was sealed on Braize, not on Roshar.note Also added a pothole for Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, on Threnody, because that's where we actually see Thernody and it's...Forests of Hell, while Threnody's only reference in The Stormlight Archive doesn't go beyond "it's bad".
Still long, but Rayse is an extremely important villain in a series that is massive on its ownnote plus he's referenced in other Cosmere series, so this is bound to be big.