CM/MB Policy and Thread Culture

Yeah, the best thing to do is just ignore them since they don't deserve the attention.

I am very lost now. What recent incident sparked this? And by "All The Tropes", do we mean the one that originated on Miraheze? Not the trope wikis or character wikis from Fandom.com, of which there are plenty and we're fine with "living and let live" with them.

Let's say hypothetically a user writes an EP here and proceeds to post the EP on another site later, would that be disallowed? It still is original work made by the user.

Edited by BillyPeepers92 on Feb 9th 2024 at 3:55:02 AM

I am not a lawyer, nor am I posting this with mod hat, but that's the t&c statement on the TVT welcome page.

So, if you post it here and grant TVT that perpetual worldwide licence, there may be issues if you subsequently try to licence it somewhere else as well. Especially if their user agreement is incompatible.

The relevant policy is About Images and Copyright, specifically the "self-plagiarism" section. TLDR: You may not post the same content on two different sites that have incompatible licenses, even if it is your own original content.

More specifically, you may have the rights to do so, but the sites themselves don't.

We also want to discourage people from cross-posting content on competing sites. This has nothing to do with IP or copyright; it's because those sites have generated substantial ill will.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2024 at 7:32:44 AM

Yeah. From what I saw of ATT, they're very free range—and there's nothing wrong with that certainly. That said, the standards and rules here—not just pertaining to these two tropes—do exist for a reason and while they probably have their own rules, it's their rules for a reason and shouldn't be forcibly applied here or vice versa.

As long as we can co-exist peacefully, there's no problem. When it comes to overlap, as long as no plagiarizing is involved, occasional cross-reference is not necessarily a bad thing, it just has to be watched very carefully though.

Crossover would either have to be coincidental or done in good faith without a doubt. Exists independently while also being somewhat of a reflection of it—like when Villains Wiki uses their own system to develop Pure Evil candidates.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 10th 2024 at 8:49:59 AM

VW was created specifically because some people didn't like our strict rules for CM, just as some of the other sites were created because people didn't like our Content Policy. That's their business, and it doesn't bother us as long as they don't try to take their rules and bring them back here. But when they do... fuck them. It's the purest definition of bad faith.

You took your ball and went home, and now you want to sneak back into the game. To quote Yahtzee Croshaw, there is no middle finger big enough.

Edit: Let me be crystal clear about this. Proposals for CM or MB on our site must be independent and may not plagiarize other sites or reference their particular criteria. If they want a "reconciliation", they must acknowledge and accept our rules. That's it. Otherwise they do not exist and shall not be mentioned.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:07:32 PM

so uh kinda a general question. What about works where the troper created a work to add a cm /mb. How are those handled?

I know that was an issue in The P5.

That happened before?

Well their was an incident in the P5 threads that caused a change

There was an admission that was the reason their work was made? Like, aside from that one story that was made based on an old meme the old forum did (All the Rest), I haven't seen any instances of where the author outright admitted they made the story just to have a CM/MB. That, and authorial input is prohibited because of bias anyway.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:17:56 AM

That falls under the broad category of "troll works" and most of them wouldn't be eligible.

The thread decided to remove our "bad taste" criterion because it was redundant with existing criteria for characterization. In other words, if someone makes a trollfic where Mario decides to sell Peach into slavery and eat all the Yoshis, it's unlikely to have any narrative justification or give any depth or complexity to its characters, and thus it can't qualify for CM regardless of the heinousness of the actions depicted.

99 percent of trollfics and creepypastas are disqualified by this metric.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 10th 2024 at 4:27:26 AM

edit: think I misread, ignore

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 10th 2024 at 5:42:09 AM

I mean what I'm saying is to of course not interfere or mess with the procedures here just because you don't like them or don't agree with them certainly. That's the fastest way to not only cause trouble, but to ask for it too.

Well candidates still exist in bad works on either trope certainly. As has been said before, both approval and applicability are not signs of quality. Plenty of good or bad works either have approved candidates or have none at all.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 10th 2024 at 9:48:54 AM

Refresh my memory—what was decided re. team sizes again? I remember there being discussion to remove the "only a maximum number of three members" rule, but—assuming that was the case—according to Libraryseraph there's a "no groups allowed" rule that seems to directly conflict with it.

That was regarding loosening the hard limit on group sizes, which was previously unambiguously capped at three. The new consensus was that there's no set "limit" but for each of its members, each one has to be distinctly characterized and uniquely heinous even within the group setting, and given that the hypothetical number of people involved in the group you want to discuss is 13, 12 of whom haven't appeared yet going off of what I know of the game, that would still run afoul of the "individuality" requirement.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 17th 2024 at 12:18:59 PM

What STAR said. We still have to take things case-by-case and evaluate the members in the groups. We removed the hard cap of 3 but it doesn't mean we now can just usher in, say, a group of 13 Brainiacs lol. At least not until we confirm if they're a Hive Mind or something.

Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying. That was what I was curious about.

Why does this thread not have a stickied OP?

because not even thread needs one and (more likely as is with fast moving topcis) no one has suggestion such action until just now

It definitely used to. I assume the OP was unstuck when the thread outgrew its original purpose and the OP became irrelevant.

I believe the OP should be changed and re-stickied to reflect the thread's current purpose.

Okay, but... why? It doesn't need one. The title of the thread perfectly states what this thread is for - discussing CM/MB policy and thread culture. It doesn't need a sticky anymore.

Fair enough.

The thing about Hive Mind groups is that it's all one personality behind it all though, regardless of which trope. There've been times where again regardless of trope, an EP was for more than one person and then multiple candidates got approved as a result. Again, a case-by-case basis though of course.

Really hard for massive groups beyond three to stand out when it would require so much attention for each character to stand out. Again, it would more often than not result in multiple candidates instead.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 20th 2024 at 6:32:54 AM