A thread offering assistance and support for tropers covering Marvel's many, many stories and characters.
This includes the shared Marvel Universe, but not the cultural Disney juggernaut known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). One of our aims is to disentangle tropes and characters from the MCU adaptations from pages about their source material.
This scope does cover Marvel comic, manga and webcomic stories, characters and tropes that are unconnected to that shared Marvel Universe - e.g. their licensed Star Wars, Alien and Predator stories.
As of September 2021, there were about 27,000 Marvel comics published across 4,900 or so different series. They started publishing in the 1940s as Timely Comics, then became Atlas Comics and - eventually - Marvel. As a consequence, Marvel have a lot of Comic Book and Characters pages on the site (and have recently started publishing Webcomics as well).
The sheer scale of this means that there's so much material (with dozens of new comics added each week) that no one troper is likely to own or read all of it - especially as there are big gaps in what's available digitally or reprinted (and licensed characters and legal issues mean that certain stories may never be reprinted at all).
And that can make troping their shared universe pretty tricky - even Marvel's own creative teams have been known to lose track now and then.
We've got tropers busily revising existing pages, while others add new information weekly as new comics are published. This thread's here to help with any queries that generates, to focus work on particular pages that could use improvement, and to help ensure that we tackle works page names and other aspects in a consistent way that makes sense to readers navigating between different Marvel-related pages (as well as following best practice for the wiki as a whole).
Feel free to post here to draw attention to relevant posts or threads elsewhere - e.g. if examples, images, captions and quotes, or spoiler policies for these pages are under discussion.
There are existing threads and standard guidelines for those topics (e.g. Image Pickin' has its own, very structured, process), and this shouldn't duplicate any of that - but tropers reading this thread may wish to vote or comment once they know about those discussions.
- If there's a consistent creative team, they should be named in the introduction. Ideally, include inkers and colorists as well as other artists.
- The page image doesn't always have to be the first issue cover.
- Pages for arcs, runs and events should include the relevant titles and issue numbers.
- Pages should include start and end dates in the introduction
- Links regarding particular characters (e.g. Wolverine) should go to their Characters page, not their ComicBook page.
- As a rule, characters in Marvel Universe continuity only get one Character page profile, regardless of how many different series they appear in. However:
- Alternate Universe and Bad Future variants may justify their own profile, and sometimes the same can be said for Split Personality scenarios.
- It may be appropriate to add a character to a relevant Character page with an intro and a link to their full profile on another page (e.g. many villains have been major characters in several different series)
- Creation of any new Character Specific Pages, and proposals to merge any of them back into other pages, should go via the Character Specific Pages cleanup thread
, but it's worth posting here as well.
- If you're splitting, merging or moving characters between different Character pages, it's worth checking with the Character Page Cleanup thread as well as posting here.
Relevant sandboxes
- Marvel Comics Sandboxes - list of relevant sandbox pages for launches, splits and mergers.
- Marvel Characters Pages: Spoiler Limits - Progress on the Character page spoiler tagging cleanup
- ComicBook Duplicate Images - Images used on multiple works pages
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2023 at 12:48:21 PM
The Formatter
When did character folders become subject to imagepickin? I thought they were exempt as they weren’t full pages?
I also disagree with removing separate images from the page I.E. the various forms of Carnage - Cletus Kasady. I didn’t think it was an issue. Where does that leave other characters, like Marvel Comics: Mac Gargan?
Edited by GateStarX on Apr 3rd 2023 at 8:20:08 AM
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Apparently they've never been exempt. First image is free, but any changes need Image Pickin', as with works pages.
This came up on ATT a while back - I think there's an acknowledgment that some of the most active tropers on ComicBook pages (and their Characters) subpages hadn't been going via Image Pickin' (initially including me) so there's some cleanup going on.
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:45:52 PM
he/him
As posted over on the Franchise thread -
Looks like Loki now qualifies for a Franchise page - aside from the various comics listed under ComicBook.Loki we've got Series.Loki 2021, Webcomic.Alligator Loki 2022 and Literature.Loki Where Mischief Lies.
Any concerns?
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 12th 2023 at 11:23:50 AM
Hi, there. About Guardians of the Galaxy:
There's a page for the original team under Guardians of the Galaxy (1969), which is just doubled over (or was at the time of its creation) from the main page. But the Guardians didn't have their own title 'till 1975, in "Marvel Presents". They didn't get an ongoing proper until 1990. Before that they bounced around between a one-shot, two issues in "Marvel Two-in-One" and a story arc in "Defenders" which "Presents" follows up from, and then some more bouncing around after.
So, bit of a classification problem, perhaps, and wondering what could be done.
The Formatter
That was me. I haven’t really had the chance to correct that and since I’m currently edit banned I can’t. I created the page with that title because the team was introduced in that year. The first comic run with that team and name didn’t happen until the 70’s though so that’s correct.
I didn’t know what else to do and honestly kind of forgot about it. That why I didn’t transfer the page from the main page.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
Thinking about this -
If we split it by series, the original team would get a Guardians of the Galaxy (Marvel Presents) and a Guardians of the Galaxy (1990) page, plus the existing Guardians 3000.
And the existing Guardians of the Galaxy umbrella page covers both versions of the team.
So perhaps we move the 60s page to Guardians of the Galaxy (1990), then shift tropes not from that series to their trope folder on the main GotG page, and/or to the Marvel Presents page if it's ever created?
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 16th 2023 at 11:20:05 AM
he/him
Just looking back at recent launches - apart from limited series that seem to be firmly part of a larger crossover event (e.g. Dark Web and Sins of Sinister), the following seem to be candidates for new works pages:
- Red Goblin
- Avengers War Across Time
- Planet Of The Apes 2023
- Monica Rambeau Photon
- Moon Girl And Devil Dinosaur 2022
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 20th 2023 at 12:05:29 PM
I would like to formally propose that X-Cellent and The X-Cellent (2023) be merged. There is not enough difference between the two series, nor has enough time passed between the end of the former and the beginning of the latter, to justify creating two different work pages.
By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.
he/him
I think that logic can be applied to all sorts of sequels in different namespaces, though. And comics are infamous for recycling titles - at least this one does change slightly.
I appreciate your point on ATT that Marvel don't seem to be acting in good faith when relaunching it as a new series and claiming it's a distinct Sequel Series, but I'm also really wary of second-guessing creators on what is or isn't a separate work.
(LaValle's Sabretooth saga gets different works pages for each miniseries, as does Zub's relaunched Daredevil and Yang's Shang-Chi etc.)
Neither page is starving for tropes right now, and it's not simply duplication of the same examples - so I'd suggest holding fire to see how the collected edition is announced in the Aug solicitations. If it's "volume two", that may support the argument for combining them. If it's positioned as a standalone, less so.
Edit: I've also put the wider question to the What qualifies as a work? thread.
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 21st 2023 at 2:30:59 PM
Frankly, why wasn't this "wait and see if they're different" approach attempted before you created a new work page? What, besides the minor change to the title, makes the two series different? Also, since when are we so concerned about "second-guessing" writers that we automatically assume that they must have wanted their series to be cut into pieces?
Edited by StrixObscuro on Apr 21st 2023 at 9:28:21 AM
By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.
he/him
Works' Pages Are a Free Launch and comic pages are frequently created within a day or two of the first issue's publication (if not pre-release) - which is generally what happens for a new work in any other namespace these days.
The proposed page for The X-Cellent sequel was added to the ComicBook section of the Future Works list when it was announced as a sequel series relaunch (rather than a hiatus) back in late December. It wasn't discussed or challenged on the related unreleased work thread.
There wasn't any discussion page post on the existing X-Cellent page or (as far as I know) any other pre-release suggestion that the two should share a page, which would have been a consideration for the launch.
With hindsight, the new page could also have been redlinked from the X-Cellent page intro (for more visibility) at that early stage as well, as the link wasn't added to the works page until March. That's a lesson learned for the future.
If we decide to merge, fair enough. But 'wait and see' isn't normally the approach taken when launching a page for something that's been positioned as a new work by its creators.
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2023 at 4:52:09 PM
If you are fine with either outcome, then I say we should just merge the two work pages now while the newer page is still relatively light on tropes. Waiting would just make things more complicated.
The Formatter
I think that since they’re two different volumes then the pages should be separate. If anyone’s to blame it’s Marvel for splitting the book when they do.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
How. Are. They. Different?
By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.
The Formatter
They aren’t. Your right. Marvel made a stupid ass decision for more money and split a book into two separate volumes when it didn’t need to be. But they did so they count as vol. 1 and vol. 2. They should be split accordingly between the two volumes.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
We already have precedent for ignoring Marvel's will, as we decided to take the tropes from the Milligan-Allred era of X-Force and add them to the page for X-Statix, even though those were explicitly two different series. I see no reason why we should humor Marvel's cynical relaunches now.
Edited by StrixObscuro on Apr 25th 2023 at 10:51:31 AM
By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.
he/him
X-Force (Milligan & Allred) specifically covers that initial run, though?
With long runners it's not unusual to break it down by creator in that way, especially when the shift completely changes the book (e.g. Grant Morrison's X-Men gets its own page, as does Peter David's run on the first X-Factor series).
X-Cellent is not a long-runner, though.
By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.
he/him
No, but the point was that we haven't set a precedent by merging X-Force and X-Statix, because X-Force does have its own separate page for the Milligan/Allred run.
he/him
Following up on the Image Pickin' conversation and subsequent discussion with ~Arawn 999: any concerns if we move Characters.Venom Flash Thompson to Characters.Marvel Comics Flash Thompson?
Flash was introduced in the 1960s, he became Venom in 2011 and lost the symbiote again at the end of 2016. He's been Agent Anti-Venom since then.
So putting him on a Venom page isn't representative of his current identity or the majority of his publication history (and is probably a factor in why Image Pickin' voting, including mine, went for a Venom image for him rather than an Anti-Venom one).
The Formatter
The venom and X-Men pages need to be moved over to the “Marvel Comics” heading, but since the pages weren’t set up like that and it would have been a hassle to change everything I kept it under the venom subheading.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
Following on from discussion elsewhere, can I suggest we add a standard %% comment to the Marvel character pages (or at least the ones in the navbox structures), warning against unilateral moves for characters?
We've had a few of these lately, not always with consensus, and sorting through the wicks to check which links need updating to point to that particular character's new page can be a nightmare.
Sound worth doing?
Edited by Mrph1 on May 9th 2023 at 5:24:54 PM
The Formatter
I mean that would help people out. I know if I had had messages like that I would have followed them. But I’d it official policy or just a warning?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
I think "get consensus before making major changes" is already policy, so this is really just a reminder of existing guidelines
I've crossposted this to the general Character cleanup thread, so if that gets enough feedback we can say that the messages themselves are by consensus.
(For me, the awkward thing with moves is mostly that you have to check every wick on a 25 character page to find the ones relevant to the one character who's been moved)
Relevant stuff currently under discussion on Image Pickin' -
Please comment or vote if you have a view.
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 2nd 2023 at 1:06:46 PM