Since this trope isn't YMMV, that's a question for this thread and feel free to go through TLP Guidelines.

So, since we broadened the trope, what is the misuse we will be wick cleaning and is that necessary? I don't remember if I asked this already or not.

EDIT: Forgot that the trope was made in-universe examples only. So I guess that's what's being checked.

Edited by MacronNotes on May 20th 2023 at 7:07:26 AM

Yeah, the trope requires it to be pointed out that both sides have a point; we're cutting Audience Reactions since it's IUEO now. The definition originally required a neutral third party to point it out, and the only broadening we did is allowing examples that have the participants point it out themselves without a neutral third party.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 20th 2023 at 9:00:26 AM

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 15th 2023 at 11:27:39 AM

Is there any missing context here that would make this My Adventures with Superman entry valid? As it is, it's just viewer-acknowledged misuse.

• Clark and Lois's falling out at the end of episode "You Will Believe a Man Can Lie". On the one hand, Clark has every right to conceal his secret identity from Lois, given they've only known each other for a short time and Lois explicitly declared her goal to publish all of Superman's secrets (while Lois claims post-reveal she wouldn't have said that if she suspected Clark was Superman at the time, Clark had no way of knowing that since she only found out recently). On the other hand, it's also understandable why Lois reacted the way she did, given it's been made clear in both this episode and the previous one that lying is Lois's Berserk Button thanks to her father hiding the truth from her about her terminally-ill mother, not to mention Clark read her the riot act for lying in Episode 1 and promised never to keep secrets from her while simultaneously lying and keeping secrets from her, resulting in a case of tunnel vision that leads her to only look at Clark's actions and not his motives. Clark had very understandable reasons for lying, but it's hard to fault Lois for feeling upset given her past trauma.

Bumping to raise awareness of this trope's wick cleaning project, as it's been almost 5 months since this thread's last post.

I decided to bring these examples from Goku and Chi-Chi's respective character sheets.

• Both Sides Have a Point: Most of his arguments with Chi-Chi regarding Gohan's education and training. While Chi-Chi is right that Gohan should have a life outside of fighting, Goku is also right that someone needs to watch over the world in case something happens to Goku.

• Both Sides Have a Point: Although she does have messed-up priorities and they often clash with Goku's, she does have a point about how Gohan shouldn't grow up being an idiot. In about 50% of her lectures, she is actually right.
  • It should be noted that Goku actually does agree with this 75% of the time, in part because he knows Gohan does enjoy studying. The last 25% is either because Gohan needs to train to help save the world or she is taking it a little bit too far.

I haven't watched this show in years, but I do remember the show always strictly siding with Goku and Gohan against Chi-Chi when Chi-Chi would preach about how Gohan needs an education. In fact, her wanting Gohan to be a scholar is never even seen as a good thing. It's seen an an obstacle in the DBZ world since Chi-Chi's ideals don't fit the show's norms and ideals. IMO, these don't actually count because for this to be an example since the show has to acknowledge that both sides do have a point (which it doesn't).