Signature Scene Cleanup

Gone.

Well, Signature Scene IS YMMV, different people will remember different scenes better. I'm not a big fan of having a specific number of examples that you can never go over.

True, but YMMV is meant to be about fandom opinions in the general. If fans can't agree on one or two scenes that are the most memorable, then there's no reason think any of them are.

That isn't true for every YMMV trope, some only require a portion of the fandom to react that way, or in the case of the moments stuff, a single person.

Well, sure, but for this trope, you can't really say something is a "signature scene" if even the fandom can't agree that it is one.

Moments are different than YMMV such they are supposed to be under separate pages.

Moment are for individual gushing. YMMV is for general audience reactions. YMMV entries still require some objectivity and rules (like Unintentionally Unsympathetic requires they were intended as sympathetic for such) to keep it a useful analysis of the work and it's reception as opposed to just bashing/gushing about the work.

Signature Scene currently lacks such rules or limits, leading to it's issues and most examples being ZCE as to why. Limiting the number of examples per work I agree would cause problems, but it still need some objective rules such you could tell if it's objectively misused or not an example. Idea's for such rules/limits?

How about "Most Referenced Scene"? Limit examples to the scenes most referenced by audiences discussion or other works?

I mean, the trope page is specific enough about what is or isn't an example. It's only a Signature Scene if "even people who've never seen the work likely recognize it". This covers scenes that underwent Memetic Mutation, twists that fall under It Was His Sled and shots that were heavily featured in promotional material, among other scenes that are an unambiguous part of pop culture. The main problem with this trope is that people are using it to gush about their favourite scenes, regardless of the lack of notoriety. Even worse, most examples are just ZCEs ("Character does that"), further encouraging less experienced tropers to write low quality entries.

I agree. Frankly, I never understood this trope's use, maybe it should go to Tropes Needing TRS and eventually get a thread to define it better (as I'm pretty sure it would need it for that).

I'l do a wick check when I have time. For it how many Signature Scenes can a work/arc/season have before it's suspect? Two? Three?

For a work? Two is starting to get suspicious; three or more is a likely problem. A good signature scene is one that even someone who isn't familiar with the work will recognize, such as "I'll have what she's having".

I think it should just go to JFF.

There's also ones with their own pages like Dragon Ball. This whole trope is a mess.

Anyway, got a few I think needs cleaning up

• Kill la Kill:
  • Ryuko becoming one with her Kamui in Episode 3.
  • Aikuro mentioning the name of their organisation.
  • Nui Harime's first appearance and The Reveal that she is the person who murdered Ryuko's dad.
  • Satsuki getting molested by Ragyo.
  • Satsuki betraying Ragyo.
  • Nui getting her arms destroyed by Ryuko as Nui bleeds everywhere.
  • Ryuko and Satsuki transforming at the same time in Episode 22.

I think if we're limiting to three, I'd go with Nui Harime's first appearance and Satsuki betraying Ragyo due to both being a major Wham Episode that became It Was His Sled. Maybe the third one would be the bath tub scene or Ryuko being Ragyo's daughter?

• Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt:
  • The first time the Anarchy Sisters transform.
  • The only time the Daemon Sisters transform.
  • The Anarchy Sisters and Daemon Sisters fight each other, resulting in the school they used as a battleground to collapse.
  • Panty stripping in front of an entire courtroom.
  • Stocking slicing up Panty into 666 pieces, revealing that she's a demon, and walking off with a revived Corset. What an ending.

For this, I'd go with the very infamous ending and the Anarchy Sisters transformation scene in the first episode.

• Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann:
  • Every single Giga Drill Breaker.
  • Kamina's death.
  • Simon coming back and kicking Guame's ass.
  • The battle against Lordgenome.
  • Kittan's Heroic Sacrifice and the birth of the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann.
  • The battle against the Anti-Spiral, including using galaxies as shuriken and the Infinity Big Bang Storm.
  • For the second movie there's Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and the Giga Drill Breaker clash.

Kamina's death, Simon's return (also called Simon becomes a man) and the battle against the Anti-Spiral.

• One-Punch Man:
  • Saitama punching out Vaccine Man in the first chapter.
  • Genos's introduction.
  • Saitama blitzing the Hero Association's physical test.
  • The infamous Training Montage of how Saitama achieved his godly powers.
  • The Dogman's introduction, where he reports 'Nothing', after wiping an entire country's worth of monsters.
  • The Hero Association trying and failing against the city-destroying Meteor.
  • Saitama and Tatsumaki's first meeting.
  • Mumen Rider's Hold the Line fight against the Sea King.
  • Saitama's subsequent Zero-Approval Gambit.
  • Boros surviving Saitama's One Punch.
  • Saitama's infamously flat "OK" and the subsequent fight with Boros.
  • Saitama getting kicked all the way from the Earth to the Moon, then him standing there looking up to the Earth and jumping back to continue his battle with Boros.

Honestly I think this one is just the opening chapter and Saitama's fight against Boros.

Edited by ReynTime250 on Mar 5th 2022 at 1:06:23 PM

Bump

Cut all of the Kill la Kill examples and replace them with Ryuko and Satsuki's first Kamui fight. That is objectively the show's signature scene since it encapsulates the show, fans gush about it, and detractors typically use the sexualized fight poses to highlight the "problems" with the show.

Everything else belongs in a Moments page.

Edited by WarriorsGate on Mar 9th 2022 at 10:39:15 AM

I'm wondering if this trope should get a TRS trip, unless I just missed it getting one recently.

A lot of the examples seem to suffer from being ZCEs (presumably on the merit of "being iconic scenes that need no explanation"), the amount of examples some works are getting is completely nutty (I'd personally limit it to ONE, it's the signature scene, not signature scenes, but I can see three being a fine limit), and it's often getting applied to works that are too obscure to really qualify as having signature scenes. (I'm not arguing about notability rules, but there are plenty of works that aren't really circulating well in pop culture, like the Hilda examples listed above).

It probably should, although this thread's existence might negate it somewhat... IDK. It's complicated.

I wouldn't limit it to just one, but there needs to be a reason why there's more than one signature scene.

For example, in Red Vs Blue, there are two signature scenes. One is the scene that advertised a well-respected animator had joined the team, and it became the scene that was used to show-case how he brought a quality jump to the show's action sequences. It still gets used as one of his most iconic sequences in any of his works. The other (a later scene, which was also animated by him) became such a stand-out fight sequence because of the creative way it used portals to enhance the fight, how one character dominated the fight, and a Running Gag that one of the fighters kept getting hit in the groin in different ways. This scene went viral, so even people who had never heard of the work or animator saw it.

If we limited it to one example only, this second option would be the one to keep because it did go viral. However, there's a specific reason for why there's two examples for this work.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 13th 2022 at 12:01:56 PM

From Crisis on Earth-X:

• Signature Scene:
  • The epic wedding fight scene, which is no surprise since the entire crossover was marketed around it.
  • The spectacular introduction of "Citizen Cold" and "The Ray."
  • The death of Martin Stein.
  • The Final Battle between the Nazis and the Earth-1 heroes, starting with the Power Walk and the Crowded-Cast Shot of the heroes lining up and then including Mirror Matches between Green Arrow and Dark Arrow, Flash and Dark Flash, Supergirl and Overgirl, as well as the Waverider and the Nazi Waverider.
  • The polarizing yin-yang ending, between the heavily built up, beautifully executed and fan craved and adored Barry and Iris wedding, and the all-around despised, last minute, half-assed tacking on of the Oliver and Felicity wedding, to appease the writers.

This has four and the last one reads like an excuse for complaining. Thoughts on what to do?

I see five there. #2 and #3 are easy cuts, for having no context whatsoever, while #5 looks like complaining rather than an example. That just leaves #1 (the wedding fight scene, which could use some expansion on what makes it "signature"), and #4 (the final battle).

Yeah looking again, there is five. I have no idea how I miscounted there.

YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog 22022

• Signature Scene:
  • Sonic and Knuckles's fight at the Wachowski residence, and in particular Knuckles catching Sonic's spin dash effortlessly. Unfortunately, the "Do I look like I need your power" line was a case of Never Trust a Trailer as Knuckles is silent during the sequence, with the line being moved to before Sonic and Knuckles began fighting, though the moment is still quite spectacular.
  • Sonic and Tails sleeping next to each other and Tails covering up Sonic with his tails is often regarded as the most wholesome moment in the film.
  • Sonic snowboarding in Siberia and the rematch between him and Knuckles while snowboarding.
  • Sonic running across the ocean towards the temple.
  • Sonic and Knuckles's rematch at the Master Emerald's shrine.
  • Sonic, Tails and Knuckles fighting against the Death Egg Robot in the climax of the film.
  • Sonic, Tom, and Maddie's Dying Declaration of Love leading to the debut of Super Sonic!
  • Shadow the Hedgehog showing up in the end credits.

Too many examples and work is just a week old by now. Only the first two have context explaining why, but first is noted to not actually be in the work and latter is wholesome but doesn't explain most memorable part.

Cut? Keep/rework any? Or since we're sandboxing examples for TRS is it worth doing anything about until the TRS?

I'm tempted to just cut everything since the film barely came out. But analyzing each entry:

• This one might be okay, since the scene was featured in the first trailer and did become one of the most discussed things about the film.
• Not a famous scene, just a heartwarming one.
• Everything else lacks context and is just gushing about a Moment of Awesome.

From Mare of Easttown:

• Signature Scene:
  • Zabel and Mare at the bar.
  • Mare watching the surveillance video at Mr Carroll’s house.
  • Mare walked into the attic.
  • Zabel getting shot and killed by Mr Potts.
  • Lori lashing out at Mare after she gets Ryan arrested.

Aren't these a tad zero context?

Yes, distinct lack of context. Cut 'em all.

And they are cut.

I am in agreement, and will be deleting some of the entries that I myself have added. At least some of the ones that I know don't fall into the category of 'signature scene" (i.e. a scene that everyone knows. Even people who've never watched it).

Apologies for the part I've played in making this page a mess.