The Simpsons cleanup

Sounds like misuse. It's just a reference to a meme, not a plot.

I've been told to come here from the Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales thread (and forgot that I did post it) so I'll just copy and paste it:

I noticed this was removed from The Simpsons episode "Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo":

• "A handful of people in Japan who managed to watch the episode loved it and believed that it should not have been removed in the first place citing that it would still be protected by Japan's free speech laws (in spite of the scene with Homer tossing the Emperor into a sumo mawashi Dumpster)."

I seem to understand the problem, it was original listed right after Banned in China (technically it was removed due to fears that it might offend the Japanese) so when it was moved into the YMMV, the context was lost (although I thought it made just as much sense). Now, I guess the real problem is sample size as I cannot tell you how many Japanese people actually saw the episode but I did find a forum thread that I can't find anymore discussing it; and from what I gathered from my halfass Japanese was that they liked and recognized it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Japanese culture and found it at least more palatable than South Park's depictions. Having explained that, do you suppose this is a valid example?

Bringing up an entire page of questionable and potentially misused examples from The Simpsons S13 E6 "She of Little Faith" (with some commentary on each):

• Broken Base: On the whole, the episode hasn't aged well for many viewers. Aside from the negative view of Christianity, it seems to be the episode that solidified the trend of Lisa getting on bandwagons/liberal trends that'd characterize her in later episodes like getting into college or blogs (in the 2000s Buddhism was seen as the "hippy religion" for young vegan liberals to be into). Others say how this episode is basically a repeat of "Lisa the Vegetarian", but without heart and more preachiness. This is a classic case of "Not an example of BB, just an excuse to complain", the "this episode hasn't aged well" line cements it.
• Designated Villain: Some have argued the episode does this to Christianity as a whole. Weasel Words, general example ("X as a whole"), and the fact that branding an entire religion as "a villain", designated or otherwise, is misuse of the trope at best, and a violation of ROCEJ at worst.
• It's the Same, Now It Sucks!: Many people found too many similarities between this episode and "Lisa the Vegetarian". Could do with more context, maybe by reworking some of the BB example into it. As it stands, it's just "Y is disliked for being too similar to X".
• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The episode missed the opportunity to touch on Ned Flanders' reaction to the commercialization of the church. This episode was made during Ned Flanders' fundamentalist phase (since it took place after the episode where Maude died, Ned's fundamentalism is implied to be a coping mechanism for Maude's death and Ned is shown taking Rodd and Todd into a bunker when he hears Lisa shout she's Buddhist) and Ned is far more devout than Lisa, yet his reaction isn't touched on in the episode. If anything, this sounds more like a "They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character" entry. The complaining about Ned's fundamentalism makes it sound more like "[Character]'s (expected) reaction to the plot wasn't shown", with the character's expected reaction being to react like their Flanderized (no pun intended) self.

Edited by Shadow8411 on Jun 28th 2021 at 11:58:59 AM

I checked out the page for The Simpsons S18E18 "The Boys of Bummer" and found that Evil All Along was added again after I deleted it:

• Evil All Along: LaBoot initially seemed to be a positive role model towards Bart, but upon learning who Bart is, he cruelly drives him to tears.

The same troper (who also added most of the bashing directed towards LaBoot in the first place) also moved the Everyone Has Standards back under Even Evil Has Standards and Hypocritical Humor back under Hypocrite.

1. Can I undo these edits?

2. Should we just lock the page to stop more complaining?

Edited by RustBeard on Jul 4th 2021 at 9:27:37 AM

As someone who did clean up the Were Still Relevant Dammit page a while ago, it seems the problem with that page is that people will add anytime the show references relevant pop-culture that some people don't like. From what I understand, the trope only applies if the attempt comes across as shoehorned in and desperate. Just two examples of that.

If it’s an Edit War, then you should probably run it by the mods first to be safe.

I already brought this up at ask the tropers. I was told to bring it up here.

I believe you were told to bring it here if there was no consensus, judging by the ATT.

Unfortunately there wasn't, it appears. I'll bump the post.

Since the removals were approved by this thread, you can probably redo them.

So if I undo those edits, it won't be considered edit warring?

Maybe PM a moderator first.

This is what a mod said on the subject.

So are they saying we should comment out those examples and then have a discussion over whether they are appropriate?

Well there’s already been an edit war, so I’ll ask the mods.

Edit:The mod said to go through with moving to discussion.

Edited by costanton11 on Jul 12th 2021 at 8:46:15 AM

This entry is from The Simpsons S 14 E 9 Strong Arms Of The Ma:

• Ron the Death Eater: A lot of fans of Ruth Powers say that this sort of direction for her character development (going to prison, taking up drugs and steroids, encouraging and even forcing Marge to do the same) was rather quite just as out of place and even an Ass Pull of an explanation for her having been absent for a good decade on the levels of The Principal and the Pauper, and as a result, this sparked a bit of Fanon Discontinuity. Many cite character inconsistencies, poor build up, the "Zombie Simpsons" thesis, and even use The Simpsons own lackadaisical reuse-recycle animation gimmicks against this portrayal of her, while at least one popular fanon cites an evil twin sister of Ruth is actually in play in the episode. Ever since this episode, no other major appearances of hers was significant until finally fading out of Springfield with Laura post The Simpsons Movie.

More of the entry is spent complaining about the show than the character, to the point that it seems like it was just added to rip on the show.

Probably remove everything not related to the character.

It's also misuse of Ron the Death Eater. Even though that tropes definition is still being debated, it doesn't apply to characters being derailed in canon.

I'm not sure if this is a recurring issue or not, but I remember how there's been talks about people making edits claiming that the show has a supposed Double Standard in favor of Lisa and Marge, with Bart and Homer being portrayed as unflattering in comparison. Apparently someone sockpuppeted frequently just to push that view, too. There's this entry for Franchise Origin Sin here, for instance. Any thoughts?

That entry was added by a troper who has been suspended since last year for such issues (among other things).

Also, there is a tendency for people to complain about Marge and Lisa (and in more ways than just the perceived Double Standard between them and the Simpson men). For example, The Simpsons S8 E21: "The Old Man and the Lisa" has three separate tropes dedicated to complaining about how Lisa turned down Burns' offer instead of using the money for other means, and it's no less prevalent on the main recap page (which also complains about Marge for being proud of Lisa for being able to turn down such a large amount of money).

Edited by Shadow8411 on Jul 16th 2021 at 12:09:22 PM

Would it be worth trying to rewrite each entry to sound more neutral, or just cut them for complaining?

There's so much Lisa-bashing on this website. Is it because she's an Author Avatar or is it because of her being a Soapbox Sadie? Or is it both?

Interestingly enough, she's the most popular Simpsons character in Japan.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 16th 2021 at 12:14:17 PM

Maybe we can add that!

I think that's already mentioned somewhere. Probably on the main page on that trope.

For what it's worth, I've only seen small complaints about Lisa being a Soapbox Sadie outside of here.

nohomers.net, which is the largest active Simpsons message board, has plenty of Lisa-bashing.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 17th 2021 at 11:53:57 AM