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(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:55:20 AM
the Retromancer
I noticed I have the option of creating a timeline page. I'm afraid I haven't seen a work with a timeline yet, so I am unclear on what is acceptable or how they work.
The author of one of the works I am editing for posted a timeline ages ago that covers the backstory of the planet dating back 12,000 years and stops at the start of the story. It is mostly just highlights of a few dozen notable events. Some of the stuff I can't recall ever being mentioned in the story proper while others get brought up a few times, though not normally with the hard dates the timeline gives. Then there is the multi-paragraph explanation the author sent me when I was confused about a Balkanize Me event listed in the timeline. Much of this sets the stage for the volatile political situation the main characters find themselves in.
While I'm not 100% fine with doing this, I am wondering if I can simply copy/paste the existing timeline with a few tweaks. We get more details on some of them from the book itself. I have messaged the author several times and they are happy with my work building the pages for them, answering several of my questions.
Working on The Fallen World
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
That may skirt on the edge of our plagiarism rules.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Is it possible for you to reword the timeline?
Admin
After speaking with the site owners, they decided that AI generated images will be allowed on TV Tropes for all pages so we updated the policy page and added an AI Generated Content section for clarity.
- Generated content is not prohibited or discouraged in and of itself.
- If someone makes a claim of ownership of such content, we will handle that as we would any other claim.
- If generative algorithms are used to create a work, in whole or in part, such content may be troped, assuming that it satisfies our other rules.
- Reproduction of a generated work (art, video, text) on our site, in whole or in part, must adhere to the rest of this policy.
Edited by kory on May 2nd 2024 at 11:30:48 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Lost in Space
About Images and Copyright has been updated to clarify this policy addendum. ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
As a reminder, image selection for articles should give preference to first-party content wherever possible. This policy clarification does not mean that someone's AI-generated fanart should be used in place of official images, any more than we would accept fanart in any other situation.
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 2:33:28 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess
Interesting. Will those images be checked for plagiarism?
Optimism is a duty.
Lost in Space
It's not our job to check for plagiarism; it's the author of the work's job. If there is reasonable belief that an image used by a work's creator has itself been plagiarized, we may choose not to use it, but that's not for us to determine.
We will not assume that AI-generated art is plagiarized by default.
That places an unreasonable legal burden on tropers.
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 2:42:02 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Disasturbator
Its actually really hard to check AI generated images plagiarism because they're pulling the image from almost everywhere,unless its really blatant
Edited by Ultimatum on May 2nd 2024 at 7:42:29 PM
New theme music also a box
the Retromancer
Images on trope pages require credit. If it's a screenshot from the work then to the work itself, and if not then to the artist. Would the one who prompted the AI count as one who should be credited in this case?
And I suppose, similarly to stock photos, if a discussion decides they don't like an image as-is, as usual the consensus can still take priority over the user who've added the image to the page.
Edited by Amonimus on May 2nd 2024 at 9:43:33 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lost in Space
What is the usual practice in such cases? We aren't about inventing new standards.
It is unreasonable and absurd to require editors to investigate and credit the source data used by a generative algorithm, so we should treat it as we would any other image. Heck, accusing authors of plagiarism without proof could be seen as defamatory.
Again, in image selection, preference always goes to the official art used by a work's creator unless there is an overt reason to choose otherwise. It's not our job to say, "This is AI-generated, so we refuse to use it."
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 2:50:08 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
War Jay 77 I could more than likely get permission from the author to use it.
Lymantria Honestly, I would prefer to reword it anyway and I will likely spend a few days editing it in a document before copying it over to TV Tropes. Still, some events I don't know very much about and are only listed in the timeline.
My main concern is if this is the appropriate use of the timeline page. It only pertains to the backstory and I don't have dates for anything that happens after the start of the story but at this point, it has been less than two years at most.
Working on The Fallen World
Lost in Space
What is the purpose of reproducing a timeline for a work that is a copy of a creator's official content? Just link to that.
We do not allow tropers to seek permission to reproduce copyrighted content except in very specific cases.
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 3:00:37 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Given we have a plagiarism policy, I would have thought it was the burden of the editor and site to make sure there's no plagiarised material on it. If we find out a piece of text was copied from Amazon Prime or IMDB we remove it and change it even if it's only a one sentence summary no-one would ever both fussing over.
If it's an unreasonable burden to make sure an AI's library was not plagiarised an outright ban on AI material does not seem unreasonable at all.
Edited by dcutter2 on May 2nd 2024 at 8:03:22 PM
Lost in Space
That is an incorrect reading of our plagiarism policy.
It does not require a troper to determine if a source was itself plagiarized. It requires a troper to avoid committing plagiarism themselves.
Now, obviously this works differently if someone is simply image-searching for something to illustrate a trope article, but in the case when a published work has "official" art, we may use that art in our articles (subject to Fair Use) and we credit that art to the work.
It's up to copyright owners to issue takedown claims for infringement. That's none of our business unless there is a bona fide claim against the author of a work, in which case we may choose to take down our content as well. It's not up to tropers to play copyright lawyers.
Again, whether art is AI-generated or not has nothing to do with this. Our only absolute legal obligation is to the DMCA.
Edited to add: All we ask of tropers is that they make a good-faith effort to ensure that they themselves are complying with Fair Use.
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 3:42:25 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Admin
No one here is a legal expert and the site owners themselves said its fine. The legal landscape could change and we may ban AI generated images in the future but for now its allowed and we treat them the same as any other. There's nothing here to debate, we're just letting the users know the new policy on AI generated images.
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
If I had to guess I think the plagiarism question was more along the lines of someone trying to illustrate a trope page than using an AI-made image for a work. In that case the user in question could theoretically break the rules if the image contains obvious plagiarism, though we already have the rule that AI content must be checked for rule-breaks by the person using it (and that they'll get in trouble if the AI breaks the rules) so it's probably OK. Just wanted to clarify what I believe the actual concern was.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Lost in Space
Have we ever established a rule, formal or otherwise, that a troper suggesting an article image is required to check that the image they are using is not itself plagiarized? I'm not sure how we would ever enforce that. I guess it would come down to citing the source, but art for a work is typically credited to that work.
Regardless, assuming that AI-generated images must be plagiarized by default is no bueno.
Edited by Fighteer on May 2nd 2024 at 4:08:54 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Admin
Users can use AI generated images for trope pages and they do not have to check them for plagiarism. They can just cite the AI that generated it and the AI may have sources of its images or it may not, that's not the users responsibility either way. If we eventually get copyright claims for those images then we will deal with them just like any other image.
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Redmess
It does feel like using AI images is running a much higher risk of plagiarism, though, seeing as AI itself is currently running fast and loose with copyright in general. I'm not sure we can really treat it as "it's probably fine, and probably not our problem".
Optimism is a duty.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
To be clear I'm referring specifically to scenarios where the troper was the one who generated the image, in which case the issue may technically be their fault (if it exists at all). But I'm not that concerned about this being an issue, really just trying to make sure we're on the same page. I'm sick so I may have trouble explaining my thoughts lol
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
A procrastination in of itself
I’d assume that a user generated image via AI would just be handled the same as a user generated imagine via hand drawing/photography. Whatever that way is.
Edited by Silasw on May 2nd 2024 at 12:33:56 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
reconsidering
currently, ai generated images are public domain by default. So, assuming that someone got the image themself by typing it into, idk, midjourney, it should be public domain and usable. (afaik, there's no court cases or laws in the us that would say its plagerism, or any less legal than using for example, a PD image from 1910. This could change, but currently would not be an issue) I would assume this works basically the same as when someone draws an image specifically for Tvtropes, in terms of how its prioritized etc.
you could just credit the image as "ai generated", i guess.
Edited by Tremmor19 on May 2nd 2024 at 7:59:11 AM
Does this count for creator folders because im trying to add the current WBTV logo onto their section on the Warner Bros. page, but idk if that requires discussions?