To start off, let me say this thread isn't some attempt to censor every single trope that has a slur, but a platform to discuss trope names that other users find outdated and/or offensive, such as the usage of slurs or outdated medical terminology.
Fag Hag is the trope that really brought this to my attention, as despite it being a widely-used name from the gay community beyond this wiki, it's faced vandalism
criticizing it for having a slur in the title. I've seen similar, but far less extreme, discomfort with some tropes using "queer" in the name, as it's still used as a slur in some areas and it's a contentious point in the LGBT community.
Since we previously decided, after many years of discussion, to rename Transsexual to Transgender to reflect terminology more widely-used and accepted than the previous name, I'm curious if any other tropes would warrant this problem.
MOD EDIT, note:
- A sandbox collating discussed tropes is at Outdated or Offensive Trope Names.
- See also Prescriptive vs. Descriptive Language (we trope using the language that is used, not how we would like the language to be) and Trope Renaming Guidelines (it is not very easy to rename a trope, so renaming is done after proof of usage onsite [and offsite, if applicable] is presented).
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 2nd 2023 at 8:54:52 AM
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
I would personally go with Timbuktu.
Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu#In_popular_culture
Believe it or not, according to a 2006 survey, 34% of young Britons don't believe in the existence of Timbuktu, while the other 66% consider it "a mythical place."
Kirby is awesome.
RE: Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite, I just finished up a wick check for it after seeing how the on-page examples seem to conflate being intersex, having an androgynous appearance, and being transgender, and the usage on the wider wiki seems to confused too. To summarize:
- Intersex character is lusted after for being intersex: 22%
- Intersex character is lusted after for being androgynous: 4%
- Non-intersex character is lusted after for being androgynous: 8%
- Intersex character is portrayed as the most attractive person in the work: 8%
- Intersex or transgender character happens to be attractive/have a love interest: 10%
- People who can shapeshift are attractive: 2%
- ZCEs and potholes: 24%
- JFF, sandboxes, etc.: 14%
- Other misuse: 8%
So with how differently it's being used, we should first narrow down what the trope is before settling on what to rename it.
i'm at the combination she and it
that's probably enough to put it on the TRS Queue, then... the description does explicitly say that the trope covers nonbinary and androgynous characters in addition to intersex ones, so i would say the first three use cases are equally valid under the current definition, but having a tighter name and description might help cut back the confusion over the meaning
🍊orange fursona🧡
Bumping this. Does anyone think that Indian Maiden is due for a rename?
As I'm from Southeast Asia, I often mistake the trope name more with South Asian women wearing gorgeous saris than Native American women.
Hmm. It's a stereotype trope so I don't think it strictly falls under the "outdated and/or offensive" umbrella, but I can see the argument that it's Americentric. OTOH I'd be surprised if there's actually a lot of misuse in practice.
🍊orange fursona🧡
Bumping this.
Regarding That Russian Squat Dance, with the ongoing war with Russia and Ukraine, and the Hopak dance is Ukrainian Cossack origin, should we rename this to something else?
ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean... it's associated way more with Russia, at least in the media I know.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
As mentioned on the article itself, the origin is both Russian and Ukrainian (medieval East Slavic), so it's not inaccurate (I don't know if it is, Wikipedia doesn't seem to agree). But naming it as Squat Dance and leaving the other as a redirect may be more accurate and more general.
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 25th 2024 at 1:53:36 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
he/him
Given that Cossack includes both Russian and Ukrainian communities, maybe Cossack Squat Dance?
Angry babby
I thought the association with Russia in media regardless of actual origin was part of the trope.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Very Spooky
I’ve seen it associates far more with Russia specifically, yeah. It might be Ukrainian in origin, but we’re documenting fiction here.
back lol
the Retromancer
Also I think the trope isn't about the dance but the kicking move specifically.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
I'd be for renaming it to Cossack Squat Dance. That's closer to what people tend to call it where I'm from, anyway.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
I've also always read it as "kicking dance is a Russian stereotype" regardless of real life origin.
A reminder that this thread is for offensive language, not for trope names that aren't accurate. We really don't need to be renaming everything in the name of fidelity to real life.
Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 25th 2024 at 9:02:29 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Right. The dance alone isn't the trope
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Friends forevermore
The trope relies around the association of the dance with Russia, not the dance itself.
(And "Russian" is in no way an outdated or offensive term, so I'm pretty sure it's outside the bounds of this thread anyway.)
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Yeah, National Stereotypes are often innacurate in one way or another. Our job is documenting that.
If media tends to immediately associate the dance with Russia, we're just documenting the trend.
Edited by UchuuFlamenco on Apr 25th 2024 at 10:54:58 AM
the Retromancer
And probably assocoated with Soviet Union more, which includes Ukraine. Haven't honestly seen modern examples of it other than those with no association with Russia and just being added for a funny scene.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Either Reindeer or Timbuktu is fine, I personally lean a bit towards the latter since it's more obscure.