The Karate Kid General Thread

This thread will be for the following films: The Karate Kid, The Karate Kid Part II, The Karate Kid Part III, and The Next Karate Kid. Cobra Kai has its own thread here. Discussion for the 2010 film should go here.

Now then, first order of business: favorite film/s? For me (most favorite to least favorite), The Next Karate Kid, The Karate Kid Part II, and The Karate Kid.

Edited by HallowHawk on Sep 16th 2020 at 5:34:24 PM

Cobra Kai was-

-reads post-

Awww.

Wait, you like the Hilary Swank one the most, and don't even count Part 3?

I want to hear this one. No judging, tell me your reasons.

For me it's, least to most favorite: Karate Kid Part III, Karate Kid Part 1, Karate Kid Part 2, The Next Karate Kid, and the remake.

Edited by FOFD on Sep 16th 2020 at 10:53:41 AM

Alright. Liked Next Karate Kid because for the following:

1. Reversing the usual "girl needs saving by the guy who knows karate" premise of the first three movies.

2. While it recycled the premise of the first movie, there was no tournament and lessened the number of songs needed for certain scenes (the one used in the prom was well-used).

As to why I didn't like Part III, pacing's the reason why. I mean, I can understand the first film and Next Karate Kid having the pacing slow down in the beginning but in the middle?

Edited by HallowHawk on Sep 16th 2020 at 9:55:03 PM

For me, it's:

• Part II, because it was both about Mr. Miyagi and Daniel, which is unique to this movie.
• Part I, because it's a classic.
• Part III, because it comes across as an inferior version of Part I.
• The remake with Jaden Smith and Jackie Chan because it's a crappy remake.

I haven't seen Next yet, because it's never on TV for whatever reason.

Alright fair enough It's just the first time I've heard that. I don't hate TNKK, but it wouldn't be my top pick. Still, valid reasons. I wouldn't mind if Cobra Kai brought Hilary Swank back as another disciple of Miyagi, finally uniting with Daniel.

I like Part 3 largely because Kreese's brother is just the worst.

For me, to go more in depth:

• Part 3 - Miyagi whooping Kreese and Silver
• Part 1 - it's a classic, well-executed premise with character growth and a memorable aesop
• Part 2 - eh, Daniel's girlfriend dumps him, it's more focused on Daniel and Miyagi but the whole "this time, it's for real" never sat well with me. I would put this one lower than NKK if not for the fight scenes in that one being awful...
• Next Karate Kid - there's something about "here's another person who Miyagi taught" I liked, even if the fight scenes and the climax weren't all that great
• Next Karate Kid - I love Jackie Chan as an actor but I just didn't resonate with Mr. Han the way I did with Miyagi... plus Han was kind of a douche

I really need to go back and rewatch them though. Maybe this list would change.

Edited by FOFD on Sep 16th 2020 at 11:00:12 AM

I liked Part 3 just for the fact that Kreese's friend has a Toxic Waste disposal service.

Named Dyna-Tox.

It’s more difficult to talk about the films now thanks to Cobra Kai re-contextualizing them. Sort of like how The Clone Wars retroactively made Revenge of the Smith a better film plot wise.

If we’re not counting that, I would go from worst to best -

The Next Karate Kid - Interesting ideas and one of Hilary Swank’s first roles, but hampered by a silly premise with the paramilitary school security and a complete waste of Michael Ironside.

Karate Kid Part III - Kreese and Terry Silver are hilarious but the film itself is pretty much the first one except everyone is a lot older and the roles don’t make sense, especially in light of the second film.

Karate Kid Part II - Interesting characters, a wildly different premise from the first one, which makes it a good sequel as oppose to the rehash of Part III.

Karate Kid 2010 - The choreography is light years ahead of the original and the setting brings a lot to the “fish out of the water” story that the original was trying to do.

Karate Kid - That being said, the original beats the remake in numerous categories, particularly since it does play with the hero not being completely powerless, and despite cliches like the Crane Kick is still a well told sports tale.

Speaking of Cobra Kai, what did Robert Mark Khamen, the writer who helped conceived the franchise, thought of the series?

There is something that bothers me about the second movie.

In the second movie we are told that Daniel-San's girlfriend turned into a Jerk and that's why they ended their relationship.

If the writers wanted Daniel to stay single, why didn't they just say that their relationship from the first movie didn't work out, because that need to turn the girl into a jerk?

The only explanation is that the writers of the second movie hated the character or the actress.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Sep 17th 2020 at 10:45:04 AM

The actress went back to school and couldn’t work out a schedule, so...yeah, they wrote her out as anti-climactically as possible.

I think something better would be something about them breaking up due to being bad at long-distance relationships.

"yeah, they wrote her out as anti-climactically as possible."

That doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that they decided to turn her into a jerk for no reason.

That is, Daniel could perfectly have said that the relationship did not work, and that's it.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Sep 17th 2020 at 3:08:59 AM

I think something stronger was needed so that Daniel is more open to the new love interest. If he was moping around pining after Ali it would make Kumiko seem more like a rebound, if he was just okay with Ali leaving no hard feelings it lacks any real emotional impact.

I believe a similar behind the scenes issue is why his mom was written out.

I've always been fond of Part 2, it's a sequel that follows similar themes but dramatically evolves the story, setting and characters. Part 1 is obviously the more iconic movie, though.

Can we now consider Ali a Dude Magnet then? Johnny and Daniel aside, you have that guy she dumped Daniel for, and as Cobra Kai showed, you have a guy with the surname Schwarber marrying her and that Tommy (one of Kreese's original students) having a crush on her before Johnny "struck first"

Assuredly. They all treat her as The One That Got Away.

The reason Part II works IMO where Part III falls flat is that it takes the escalation in a completely different direction than where people expected it to go, and made the core of the series less of a sports movie and more of a movie about the art of karate and philosophy helping the father/son relationship and all that jazz. Maybe it’s because Robert Mark Kamen didn’t want to repeat notes from the Rocky films that he helped write or maybe it’s because it was the 80’s and not the post-modern MMA era, but like Miyagi repeatedly told Daniel-San, the series was never about the tournaments. Making the conflict about old grudges and finding peace elaborated on the themes without being a sports tale.

Hell, I’d argue that’s the difference between the teams in Cobra Kai. Johnny thinks he’s in a Rocky style franchise, Daniel still realizes he’s in the Karate Kid franchise.

Yeah. And even then, Danny still screwed up by because he never really instilled that in many of his students.

While I’ll save the dojo analysis specifically for the Cobra Kai thread, the one running commonality among Karate Kid successors, knockoffs, and the like that the original films tried to avoid is using the tournaments and competition as the end to themselves, when they were always to Miyagi a means to an end. Take for example, Best of the Best.

Guys training for a tournament as the be-all, end-all goal under the council of...James Earl Jones (I don’t know how he got cast either). The tournament is the ultimate goal, and everything is resolved through it. The one film that forgot Karate Kid wasn’t supposed to be about that coincidentally ended up being, if not the most maligned of the series, tied for it with Next.

What does anyone here think of the theory that Ichiro from Part II and the Grand Abbot from Next Karate Kid are the same guy because they're portrayed by Arsenio Trinidad?

It's the same thing with the original Rocky, the finale is more about developing respect for yourself than the actual outcome. That's why Rocky losing wasn't some crushing defeat but a huge personal victory. In The Karate Kid the victory came when Daniel insisted on facing Johnny in the final fight, not actually winning.

There are a lot of similarities, (same scriptwriter after all) but I think they key difference (and please tell me if it sounds dumb) is that Rocky was about being better in the self to succeed in the sport, while Karate Kid was about using the art to be better in the self (again, except 3, which Cobra Kai has nicely rendered full circle). Rocky wants to be something in the sport he dedicated his life to, even if it was just getting the shot and being seen as worthy on the big stage. It goes from that to striving for that great accolade and the chance he realized he never deserved to...ending the Cold War. It’s reflected in how the montages for those films go, the pursuit of personal excellence to the goal in the ring with high energy music that says “I’m going to succeed in my goal.”

Daniel never ended the Cold War. But he didn’t have to. His focus is always about the personal, being the better person, his relationship with others, etc. Even in the more conventional sports tale of 1, his training montages are about balance, peace, and the wise counsel of Mr. Miyagi.

Rest in peace Roger Carel, French Man of a Thousand Voices, dub voice of Miyagi and countless others.

How did Carel sound as Miyagi in the French dub of the films?

I'm no specialist of Japanese accents but I think it was in What the Hell Is That Accent? territory. Daniel has the same voice as Marty McFly meanwhile (Luq Hamet).

Edited by Iridener on Sep 19th 2020 at 1:16:13 AM

Rewatching the trilogy as an adult is a different experience, especially as you pick up on a lot of things that blew past me as a kid. For example, Mr. Miyagi's attitude toward training Daniel is a lot clearer to its reasons.

Miyagi doesn't know tournament karate. He knows, "how to kill someone with your bare hands" OG karate. Not for kids. Not for flash. Just pure hitting people and taking them down permanently.

It's also why Miyagi realizes that Kreese is genuinely dangerous because he's teaching kids lethal attacks as well. You have to wonder if Kreese assumed the kids would be Child Soldiers who joined the military after high school in his mind or if it was an end to itself.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 24th 2020 at 10:17:34 AM

While I'm sure he wouldn't object to his students picking such a career path, I don't think it was his goal. His goal was to have his students act like a Sociopathic Soldier in life in general. Kreese cares about nothing but strength, and to him, strength means "winning" by walking over everyone else's needs.

I'm not going to call the guy an open nazi, but I'm sure he'd be quite down with the current crop of alt-right nonsense.