Wall of Text cleanup

Ron the Death Eater example at YMMV.Umineko When They Cry can't even fit in my desktop screen.

Reading the example seems like the troper’s trying to enlighten anyone who thinks otherwise rather than explain why Rosa is an example of the trope. The example just goes on and on, and it doesn’t seem like it could be sub-bulleted because of how much complaining there is. It needs to be trimmed down to the most important details.

Personally this entire part:

Could be removed.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Mar 17th 2024 at 12:34:35 PM

Found this on YMMV.Fire Emblem Three Houses

• The Crimson Flower route is easily the most contentious path in the game (contrasted with Silver Snow, which is the least popular route). Setting aside the fact that it stars Edelgard and all the drama that entails, those on both sides of her argument are conflicted on various aspects of the route, such as its short length and overall rushed feel (it only has one animated cutscene, and Jeritza, one of its exclusive characters, had to be added in a later patch), along with debates over the quality of its writing (with several major moments, such as Randolph and Ladislava's deaths and fighting Those Who Slither In the Dark occurring offscreen), whether Edelgard got enough Character Development and if it was a good or a bad idea to have most of it hidden behind her supports (by contrast, Dimitri and Claude's character evolution is very much visible during the main story of their paths). The conflicting perceptions it has spawned regarding whether if it shows the most black-and-white depiction of the conflict (either by stripping Rhea and the Church of all their sympathetic traits, or conversely, by forcing players to play the villain route where the guilt-tripping becomes unbearable as you help Edelgard take over Fódlan), or if it manages to remain grey overall and showcase that for once, the Empire isn't that bad after Edelgard reforms it, also contributes heavily to its status. Not to mention, people are also split on whether it makes sense to have The Immaculate One serve as the Final Boss of Edelgard's story instead of the Agarthans or not; some want the satisfaction of dealing with the most evil faction during the campaign or think it would make it longer, while others believe having the Immaculate One as a final boss allows the game to end on a climactic note without succumbing to Ending Fatigue and/or Anti-Climax, given that in Silver Snow/Verdant Wind, the Agarthans are swiftly dealt with in one chapter once Shambhala's location becomes known and the group no longer have the Empire supporting them. Long story short, you have those who like Edelgard and think the route is perfect for her, those who like Edelgard but dislike the route and think she deserved better, those who dislike Edelgard and her route, and those who don't sympathize with Edelgard but still find her path fun to play and appreciate it being the most unique one. And then there is the camp who doesn't hate Edelgard by any means, but think that Crimson Flower completely invalidates the other three routes with its ending and makes the three other routes worthless while also going against the main selling-point of the game

This Base-Breaking Character example on YMMV.The Super Mario Bros Movie seems a bit too long and rambly.

• Princess Peach. While her not being a Damsel in Distress like usual has been near-unanimously praised for its inherent merits, the execution of it has been very contentious to say the least. In contrast to the games, which have gradually made her more of a proactive Action Girl and has given her more personal agency while still maintaining the same very feminine, elegant, soft-spoken and somewhat ditzy personality, the film version of Peach is a much more serious, no-nonsense and goal-oriented ruler, with her softer and more "girly" side being far more understated and socially awkward. This fairly significant Adaptation Personality Change drew a lot of criticism from fans, arguing that Xenafication doesn't come nested with her quirky and feminine traits and that removing them not only makes Peach less interesting but also devolves her into a generic and boring "girlboss" / "modern Disney Princess" character. On the other hand, some fans defended the change or welcomed it, seeing it as a fresh take that compliments the original, arguing that the personality change was necessary for the more dialogue-heavy medium, or even seeing it as an improvement, as her game counterpart is still a somewhat controversial character in her own right. Aside from her personality, the most commonly cited point against Peach's film version is that they just make Luigi a Distressed Dude instead of her, meaning she has more focus than Luigi overall despite the brothers' chemistry being considered the film's strongest asset. There's also a small amount of division over how her romantic relationship with Mario was handled in the film, with those who don't like it arguing that it being so lightly alluded to makes the story weaker or a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot^note The wedding plot in Super Mario Odyssey, in comparison, was a very important moment in the relationship of their game counterparts, even if they didn't go through with it in end, as Mario's main motivation was to rescue Peach from being stolen away from him; meanwhile, in the film, he's an Unknown Rival to Bowser and doesn't even find out about the wedding until it's already been stopped, and those who do arguing that it makes more sense given that movie is about them meeting for the first time, preferring that their relationship go for the somewhat more realistic "slow burn romance" route.

Yeah, it could be trimmed. Also, Princess Peach is many things but "controversial" is not one of them. I've also only heard complaints of Peach's characterization in the film by reactionaries or those complaining about her being "woke". The entry seems more of a debate about Peach’s characterization as an Action Girl rather than the film version itself.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Apr 12th 2024 at 8:04:57 AM

I have used Google Gemini to trim the example:

Here's a rewrite of the excerpt focusing on the key points and removing unnecessary details:

Princess Peach's portrayal in the Super Mario Bros. Movie sparked debate. Unlike the games' damsel-in-distress, this Peach is a serious leader, lacking the usual feminine charm. Fans criticized this "Xenafication" as a dull "girlboss" stereotype, removing Peach's quirkiness and making her less interesting. Defenders saw it as a fresh take for a dialogue-driven film and an improvement over the game's controversial character. Another point of contention is making Luigi the damsel instead, shifting focus from the Mario-Luigi dynamic, considered the film's strength. The romantic angle also divided viewers. Some disliked its downplaying, contrasting it with the game's "rescue the princess" trope. Others felt it fit the film's "first meeting" narrative, preferring a slower romance.

Here's what we removed:

• Removed references to specific tropes like "Damsel in Distress" and "Action Girl."
• Removed comparisons to specific games like "Super Mario Odyssey."
• Removed details like Peach's "soft-spoken" personality or the "socially awkward" aspect of her film portrayal.
• Removed the phrase "somewhat ditzy" as it's subjective and not crucial to the point.
• Shortened the explanation of "Xenafication."
• Removed the aside about Peach's character being controversial in the games.

This rewrite keeps the core arguments about Peach's portrayal and the romantic subplot, while being more concise.

Note that further changes can be made to the rewrite.

So Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has this entry:

• Fanwork-Only Fans: One of the reasons Pyra and Mythra are Best Known for the Fanservice is their vast amounts of Rule 34 from artists who have admitted to never playing the game or were commissioned to do so by people who didn't, but were still attracted to Pyra and Mythra's designs. While this is mitigated by their Newbie Boom thanks to being included in Smash to make them more easily accessible, it still resulted in an explosion of fan art created or enjoyed by people that also have no interest in Smash but were attracted to how hot they were. This leads to skewed perceptions of the two girls in terms of their personalities and relationship with each other and Rex. Even Rex isn't safe from this as his proximity to the Aegis sisters makes him reduced to a tool for Pyra and Mythra to dominate, not unlike how the Fanwork-Only Fans of of NieR: Automata, Kid Icarus and Chainsaw Man believe 9S, Pit and Denji are nothing but submissive toys to 2B, Palutena and Makima^note the latter does lean into the notion quite a bit, but it ends up far more complicated than that thanks to the large amount of femdom art they have, not realizing they go through a lot of Character Development.

Is it me or is it way too long, on top of being overly-detailed and granular about people's sexual fetishes in a one-handed troping kind of way?

I agree. It's basically a valid example — Pyra and Mythra do have lots of fans who've never played the game due to their designs and fanart — but it really doesn't need that much detail. Especially the whole part about Rex and the weird comparisons to other media, all that stuff seems totally unnecessary.

Does seem to be long in my eyes. If you were to shorten this example then I would be ok with it being included. I mean I see no reason to go into a lot of detail about their appearance or other series.

At any rate, the trope itself is gone so no point in having it around anymore.

Fandom Only Fans is not a thing anymore? That's sad. But again, I realize its not a trope and just "A thing that's common in fandom anyway"

What do you mean? The trope is still around.

I think this entry for Marvel Comics: Magneto is simply wrong. I'm posting it here because there isn't a thread for misuse of Angry White Man, but the entry also has a natter that is a wall of text.

• Angry White Man: It depends on the version. One can of course apply this to the entire X-Men Mutant Metaphor, but Magneto in particular is, after all, outwardly a handsome white man who claims to represent all mutants unlike the X-Men (led by the disabled Professor X) and the Morlocks (who cannot "pass" as human unlike Magneto and Professor X) and makes little to no attempts to build consensus or build something that can appeal to people who do not agree with him.
  • On the other hand... the main version is a Jew who survived Auschwitz. He's spent most of the last decade as a member of the X-Men, albeit usually of the more ruthless variety — certainly, he's stopped bothering with attempts at global conquest. And he has actively attempted to create sanctuaries for mutants before, on a small scale on Asteroid M/Avalon, then on a larger scale in the Savage Land and Genosha, the latter of which took mutants of all varieties. While each of them were destroyed by Mutants (the former crashed after a brutal duel between Holocaust and Exodus, the Savage Land was a bust, and Genosha was wiped out by Cassandra Nova), the latter used Wild Sentinels, technology created by humans to slaughter mutants, to pull it off. And when one considers the countless generations of Sentinels, and the various groups that have actively tried to wipe mutants out... well, there's a reason that he's one of the more popular Marvel villains. You can see where he's coming from.

Magneto simply is not an Angry White Man. This seems to rest mostly on the Broken Base of some comics fans disliking the Fantastic Racism of the mutant metaphor. But no matter how a portion of the fan base feels it's a Broken Aesop, it's undeniable that Magneto, in the context of the universe he lives in, isn't from a historically privileged group that suffers "supposed" persecution. The persecution he suffers from is real in the Marvel Universe, no matter whether one finds it clumsy or well-done in mirroring real world persecutions.

By the way, I'm not saying this as a clueless Magneto fanboy. I think it's totally appropriate to list some of the other negative tropes that some versions of Magneto have fallen into in the character's long career, even A Nazi by Any Other Name and, most of all, Super Supremacist. But Angry White Man is a specific trope that I just don't think fits Magneto, even metaphorically.

Never mind, you're right. I was thinking of Fanart At First Sight which was alphabetized similarly.

This behemoth is on Trivia.The Hunchback Of Notre Dame Disney (and this is just one sub-bullet of the What Could Have Been entry):

• Believe it or not, at one point, the studio considered having Quasimodo and Esmeralda end up together to avoid negative feedback. In an early version of the movie that was storyboarded and partly animated, the "love triangle" subplot was resolved earlier, and there was a larger focus on the romance between Phoebus and Esmeralda in the third act. This included a love song and Phoebus taking part in the final confrontation with Frollo, as the rebellion was led by Clopin. Originally, after Quasimodo was heartbroken, there was going to be a longer sequence in The Court of Miracles where Quasimodo is about to leave, only to be urged by Clopin to witness a special announcement by Phoebus and Esmeralda. Quasimodo feared it was their engagement and didn't wish to see it, but to his surprise, Esmeralda and Phoebus gathered all the gypsies to throw a celebration for Quasimodo to thank him for all he had done for them. This was meant to play a part in Quasimodo's realization of the value of his inner beauty and to heal his heartbreak for the rest of the third act. However, the studio found this version too harsh. The scene of Quasimodo's heartbreak, same as the one in the final movie, felt too upsetting, sending a pessimistic message that the deformed character was unable to win the heart of the girl he loves. It also made it hard for viewers to enjoy with Esmeralda and Phoebus' romance as it only made them feel more sorry for Quasimodo and made the characters unlikable for not realizing Quasimodo's true feelings. While Quasimodo ending up with Esmeralda felt like a perfect solution to be on-brand with Disney's optimistic spirit, the writers were equally concerned that Quasimodo's "wants" (being accepted by society) and "needs" (realizing his own self-worth and standing up to Frollo) had nothing to do with him ending up with Esmeralda. This overshadowed his actual character arc and the message of the story. Additionally, there was the problem of Phoebus being left with nothing. The head writer, Tab Murphy, proposed a solution where Quasimodo realizes on his own that being with Esmeralda is not what he truly wants and that he only likes her as a friend. Another version where Quasimodo was asked to perform the wedding for Esmeralda and Phoebus was storyboarded, but it ultimately felt like forcing Quasimodo into accepting their relationship rather than his own choice. To make this work in a way that wouldn't feel bitter or contrived, the resolution of the arc was moved to the penultimate scene. All the romantic moments between Phoebus and Esmeralda, including the love song and wedding at the Court of Miracles, were cut from the third act and replaced by a scene where Phoebus realizes Quasimodo's feelings for Esmeralda and steps aside to give him full credit for finding the Court of Miracles. The climax now focused on Quasimodo and Esmeralda, so after viewers see that the two are ready to die for each other, we get the ending where Esmeralda rushes toward Quasimodo over Phoebus, and for a brief moment, viewers think they get a traditional Disney ending of the two main characters being together, only for Quasimodo to finally make the decision that Esmeralda should be with Phoebus, making the ending finally satisfying.

After the words "too harsh", a lot can be trimmed since it’s just an analysis of the movie. The Court of Miracles surprise scene can be a seperate sub-bullet too.