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MisterSnuffy Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#1: Jun 14th 2020 at 4:48:39 PM

So Wall of Text is a major problem and something looked down upon. So, we will use this thread to clean it up.

If you find any walls of text, bring it here and we will discuss how to fix it!

NOTE: This thread is mainly for walls of text within the wiki, though it is fine if you come across misuse of the wall of text trope.

Edited by MisterSnuffy on Jun 14th 2020 at 6:02:06 AM

Karxrida The Unknown from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#2: Jun 14th 2020 at 5:56:15 PM

So this is for any wall of text, right? Not just specific examples of the trope.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
MisterSnuffy Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#4: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:02:50 AM

Let’s start off with a So Bad, It's Horrible entry. This entry for the Xbox One reveal is so big I put it in a folder. I also asked the Horrible cleanup about it but didn’t get an answer about it.

Horrible.Video Games Other

     Xbox One reveal 

Horrible.Video Games Other

[[folder: Xbox One reveal]]

  • The reveal of the Xbox One was a disaster on par with the Sega Saturn E3 '95 presentation, caused by complacency on Microsoft's part due to the success of the Xbox 360. Instead of getting gamers even more hyped for its new system, the presentation caused the mother of all backlashes against the Xbox One (or "Xbone", as it was eventually nicknamed).
    • The presentation focused on multimedia features - in particular DVR functionality and Skype calling - at the expense of games. The few games that Microsoft did show largely consisted of AAA blockbuster titles not exclusive to the Xbone. Microsoft's vision was an all-in-one entertainment device, hence the name "Xbox One" (despite the initial confusion with the original Xbox name being considered that to some people at the time). But gamers, the people who were most likely to watch the presentation, were obviously more interested in video games, with everything else being a secondary concern.
    • The same presentation also confirmed some rumors that were floating around and causing suspicion and worries among gamers. They would later go back on their word for reasons detailed below, but by the time they did, the damage was already done. Among the more troubling rumors were massive restrictions that were going to be placed system-wide:
      • The Xbone would require an online check-in every 24 hours, or else it wouldn't work. This was a particularly bad and unpopular idea, considering the server meltdowns that SimCity (2013) and Diablo III had when they tried the same thing with this sort of DRM - and those were individual games, not an entire library. These worries turned out to not be completely unfounded; just over a year after the Play Station 4 and Xbone were released, a Christmas Day DDOS attack against both the PlayStation Network and Xbox Live temporarily took down both consoles' networking capabilities. Had Microsoft stuck to their guns on the DRM, new PS4 owners would merely be stuck with offline games, but because there would have been no offline games on the Xbone, every single Xbone would have been a gigantic paperweight until the DDOS ended, a catastrophic PR blow that the Xbox brand probably wouldn't have been able to recover from.
      • The Xbone would have unprecedented restrictions on used games, charging players money just to be able to play a copy of a game someone else had purchased. Not only would this have made borrowing a needless hassle, but even today a not-insignificant number of gamers can't afford to buy everything new for at least one of a multitude of reasons, including if they were a child with no independent income. In many cases, these people would have to buy a game used, wait for a sale that may not happen, or just not get the game at all. This restriction would have significantly limited their ability to buy games for the Xbone, which may have prompted parents to discourage their children from wanting an Xbone on the basis that "that other console can play used games", and there's no guarantee that these parents found out about the U-turn before their families were committed to the PS4.
      • Every Xbone would come with a Kinect, a camera peripheral that was always on for the purposes of the "Xbox On" command, and would be required to be plugged in for the console to function. At the time, Edward Snowden had just recently exposed underhanded surveillance by the NSA and caused Americans to become concerned about privacy, so the idea of having a device in your living room that was always looking at you and listening to you was met with derision and mockery. Obviously, the NSA was a political issue beyond Microsoft's control, but they could've considered people's concerns in light of Snowden's revelations. Many potential buyers also had no interest in the Kinect, since the previous generation of consoles had caused many people to associate motion controls with gimmicky gameplay and shovelware. In particular, the previous Kinect had done the most serious damage to the perception of motion controls because Microsoft focused too much on one-upping the Wiimote and the PlayStation Move and not enough on making something that functioned adequately as a video game control scheme. This, combined with the aforementioned terrible showing at E3 2010, meant the Kinect name was tainted no matter how much of an improvement functionality-wise the Xbone's Kinect was. Forcing people to get the expensive peripheral along with the console seemed like a waste of money. In short, the Xbone's Kinect was a victim of Microsoft's tone-deafness to both the political climate and people's opinions of its predecessor.
    • Then there was the Microsoft E3 2013 presentation. While it did have some games to show off to garner some hype, Microsoft was still going into this conference with the botched reveal hanging over their heads. This was their best chance to turn things around in their favor. Unfortunately, they blew it. When pressed on the controversial policies, Microsoft, at best, simply dodged the questions entirely. Most infamously, however, they showed outright contempt, especially with Don Mattrick, President of Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Business, recommending that gamers alienated by the always-online DRM stick with the Xbox 360. This, naturally, only further fueled the flames of outrage that consumers had built towards them. It also allowed Sony to effortlessly upstage Microsoft by revealing that the Play Station 4 would not restrict offline play or used games in any way. Sony even released an "instructional video" on game sharing as a very memorable Take That! to Microsoft. As Jim Sterling pointed out, Sony was applauded for doing nothing different from normal, almost entirely because what Microsoft was doing different was so consumer-hostile.
      The positive reaction to Sony's presentation brought Microsoft to their senses, and soon afterwards they announced they would remove the 24-hour check-in and the used game policy despite previously claiming this was impossible. A press release announcing this was taken as a tacit admission by Microsoft that they saw how badly they would lose the upcoming console war if the restrictions remained. In addition, just six months after release they were forced to release an Xbone SKU without Kinect. Up to this point, an Xbone with a Kinect had led to sales being on par with, if not worse than, those of the Wii U because of a higher launch price. Since the slightly-more-powerful-on-paper PS4 was $100 cheaper, people couldn't justify paying more money for the Xbone. Even after making the Kinect optional, there was no way Microsoft could recover from the initial disaster of a reveal because it prevented them from establishing early momentum. The Xbox One's lackluster sales (estimated note  41 million units sold vs. the PS4's 92 million, as of April 2019), years after all three consoles were established in the marketplace and after Microsoft removed the main things putting people off, are at least partially attributable to the initial terrible presentation; first impressions count, after all, and when the first impressions are unprecedented restrictions and focusing too much on secondary functionality, that's going to affect consumer perceptions even after a course correction. Watch an extremely tired Angry Joe rant semi-coherently about the reveal (yet somehow manage to sum it up best) here, and read an article more coherently explaining everything wrong with Microsoft's approach here. Josh Scorcher would later declare it, and the Xbox One launch in general, to be Microsoft's second biggest failure, behind only the Red Ring of Death.
    Angry Joe: You fucking idiots. I... I... no... this... I just... I can't even start! This is... This is literally the worst reveal event I-I've ever seen. This, literally... if you can't bring the big guns, if you can't bring the good stuff to your reveal, DON'T DO THE REVEAL! Wait until E3!
    • In later interviews, it's become clear that discontent at the entire ordeal extended to within the company itself. It ended up being a Creator Killer for Don Mattrick, as he became CEO of Zynga just two months after the Xbox One's announcement. When Phil Spencer, previously the head manager of Xbox's game studios, was appointed Head of Xbox in 2014, he was told that Microsoft was seriously considering pulling out of the console market (which they ultimately didn't) thanks to Mattrick's failure to prevent the now-abandoned policies from derailing the hype train. While Phil Spencer is a genuinely respected figure and credited for keeping the brand afloat throughout the 8th generation, he cites the Xbox One's announcement as a massive Old Shame for the division.
    Phil Spencer: If you were an employee in team Xbox, then you were [a part of a team of] thousands of people that work on the Xbox. But there's like a handful of people that stand in front of cameras, on the stage and talk about things. There can be a divide between, 'Why is that person saying that? That's not the product I'm building,' or, 'Why are we doing that? That's not what I think we should be doing.' The feedback we got from the employees, maybe said and unsaid, was, 'We've been working really hard for two years to ship this product. You stand on stage at this event and blow up all the good work that we've done by talking about the product in a way that's not really matching what the soul of an Xbox console is about and what our customers are looking for from us.'

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jun 15th 2020 at 4:02:56 PM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
MisterSnuffy Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#5: Jun 15th 2020 at 6:43:31 AM

[up] Holy shit. Even I couldn't read all of that crap. That person just needs to get to the point. The main problem is Word Cruft. He should just say “the Xbox had little games” and elaborate. Or “the Xbox has had restrictions” and briefly elaborate.

Also, is stuff like this even allowed on horrible pages? It's a REVEAL of a console, not the actual console.

Edited by MisterSnuffy on Jun 15th 2020 at 7:08:26 AM

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#6: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:51:07 AM

Here's one I found in Moral Dissonance, which I've posted in the Is this an example thread? but didn't get any response. I don't know how to pare it down, because I'm not familiar with the work, but maybe someone else does?

  • The Black Knights of Code Geass, particularly Ohgi, fall victim to this when they fall for both logical and moral incongruities put forth by Schneizel to turn them against Lelouch. Ohgi, despite believing that people should not be treated as pawns, nevertheless allows himself and the others to be manipulated by Schneizel in order to get rid of Lelouch. He probably thought of it as choosing the lesser of two evils. In the same scenario, Villetta Nu, while acting out of concern for Ohgi, leaves out a number of details (that she may or may not even have been aware of herself, given that it's likely all her information on it came from Emperor Charles and who knows how honest he was with her) that would have cast a favorable light on Lelouch, namely the limitations of said power, thereby needlessly (or maliciously) hurting the latter's case. And Ohgi, who claims that people should never be used as pawns, uses Kallen as one to draw out Lelouch, who he intends to sell out to Schneizel, as yet another, in exchange for Japan. On top of this, for all the complaints of Lelouch going AWOL during the Black Rebellion, Ohgi did the same a few episodes before the current predicament here on account of Villetta. Speaking of which, one of the charges brought against Lelouch is that he's a Britannian Prince, even though no one takes issue with Ohgi's tryst with Villetta, a Britannian agent, one who had been monitoring Lelouch while he was captured no less, and was the one responsible for incapacitating Ohgi in the first place partly due to the latter dropping his guard with her, and that they were taking the advice of not only said agent, but also that of Schneizel, a current royal, and, barring the Emperor himself, the most notorious one at that, whereas Lelouch had been in exile after being tossed away as a disposable pawn and given every reason in the world to loathe the Empire that betrayed him and stood for everything he hated. To top all of this off, such a deal, if it were to go through, would likely result in something tantamount to Lelouch abandoning the Black Rebellion, only magnitudes worse: the Black Knights essentially abandoning their duties as military front of the UFN, and thus their duty of liberating the world from the Britannian Empire.

MisterSnuffy Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#7: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:29:14 AM

[up] The main point seems to be Ohgi being a hypocrite (using himself and others as pawns, going AWOL, etc) so you should just trim it down to that. Now I'm not sure if this is an example because tbh, I'm not 100% familiar with this trope.

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#8: Jun 16th 2020 at 4:09:31 AM

Moral Dissonance trope has a lot of overlap with Moral Myopia, which is why I don't know how much I can cut without removing the part that distinguishes this trope with the other.

JustYouWaitForIt Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#9: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:53:14 PM

had a go at cutting down the xbox one bit. Fun fact the original was approx 1500 words, got it down to around 300. I removed all of the response as I felt it was unnessary. the page has a few other presentations and most of them just deal with the problems with the presentation

The reveal of the Xbox One was a disaster on par with the Sega Saturn E3 '95 presentation, caused by complacency on Microsoft's part due to the success of the Xbox 360. Instead of getting gamers even more hyped for its new system, the presentation caused huge backlash against the Xbox One (or "Xbone", as it was eventually nicknamed).

The presentation focused on multimedia features - in particular DVR functionality and Skype calling - at the expense of games. The few games that Microsoft did show largely consisted of AAA blockbuster titles not exclusive to the Xbone. The problem was that the main audience of the presentation where gamers, who were most interested in the games.

The same presentation also confirmed some rumors that were floating around and causing suspicion and worries among gamers. Among the more troubling rumors were massive restrictions that were going to be placed system-wide:

The Xbone would require an online check-in every 24 hours, or else it wouldn't work. The Xbone would have unprecedented restrictions on used games, charging players money just to be able to play a copy of a game someone else had purchased

Every Xbone would come with a Kinect, a camera peripheral that was always on for the purposes of the "Xbox On" command, and would be required to be plugged in for the console to function. This caused privacy concerns, as Edward Snowden had just recently exposed underhanded surveillance by the NSA. Many potential buyers also had no interest in the Kinect, as the previous generation of consoles had caused many people to associate motion controls with gimmicky gameplay and shovelware

Karxrida The Unknown from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#10: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:02:36 PM

What page was [up] on?

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#11: Jun 17th 2020 at 11:07:32 PM

[up][up] Remove the Fan Nickname and that should be fine.

[up] That example was on Horrible.Video Games Other.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jun 17th 2020 at 3:08:01 PM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Nouct insert commentary here from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
insert commentary here
#12: Jun 18th 2020 at 8:19:13 AM

FranchiseOriginalSin.Fate Grand Order was just created and I don't even know where to start with this.

    Under a folder because it's LONG 
  • An issue that came to a head in Grand Order was the preponderance of Saberfaces, the very first of which dates back to the original Fate/Stay Night game, in the form of Artoria's corruption-polluted form, Saber Alter, whose contrasting personality to her original self made a huge impression. Fate Zero had Gilles de Rais mistake Artoria for Jeanne de Arc, making her technically the first Identical Stranger "Saberface," but Jeanne's legend is tied up with King Arthur's,note  and Gilles was quite mad, with the two otherwise being very different in design and characterization, so the connection wasn't overpowering. Mordred from Fate Apocrypha was a literal clone of her "father," but the story worked there by tying it into her issues with her own identity, gender, and family. Even Nero, the "Red Saber" from EXTRA who is generally seen as the point where it got out of hand, had the meta-reason of her personality being meant to contrast the original, being far more prideful, loud and wild than Saber ever was, despite otherwise being by far the most gratuitous example in the franchise, and Okita from KOHA-ACE was a joke and a parody of the fact it was getting out of hand. Grand Order's overuse of Alternate Self versions of popular characters, on the other hand, quickly got completely out of control in the first years of the game's lifespan, featuring not only the original Artoria, Jeanne, Mordred, and Nero but Artoria Alter, a new Jeanne Alter, Artoria Lily (representing a young and innocent version of Artoria), Artoria Lancer and Lancer Alter (who are also complained about for having more sex appeal than their counterparts), Mysterious Heroine X (a meta-joke character who claims to come from a Bad Future overrun with Sabers and Saberfaces who represents Artoria wanting to kill off her clones and reclaim her position as the franchise's poster-girl), Alter and grown up versions of her, swimsuit versions of many of the above, and Jeanne Alter Santa Lily, whose own profile complains about how out-of-hand the cloning has gotten. Things have died down considerably in later years, but even the India Lostbelt featured Lakshmibai, the "Jeanne de Arc of India," as an Identical Stranger for Jeanne.
  • The habit of gender-flipping random historical figures started with Saber, and it was originally seen as a selling point. It worked out extremely well, in part because the creators were aware of the oddity of King Arthur secretly being a woman, and treated it with some delicacy. Not only was she the only recipient of a Gender Flip in the cast, but her backstory was heavily informed by the differences that resulted from a girl assuming the role of King Arthur, with elements of the myth being able to work with the alterations, such as the reason for Lancelot and Guinevere's affair, and Arthur being more of a mythological figure than a historical one anyway. But then came Fate/EXTRA, which gender-bent Emperor Nero and Francis Drake for no reason other than to do it, even though they're very well-documented historical figures and the roles they assumed would have been impossible for women in their societies, and gave them racy and revealing character designs, where the original Saber could still plausibly have been mistaken for a feminine young man. Grand Order followed that trend, with gender-bent historical figures and amped-up sex appeal in their character designs, such as Minamoto-no-Raikou and Ushiwakamaru, two famous male Japanese generals who are so obviously women (Raikou has an impossible figure and near-skintight armor and Ushiwakamaru is barely wearing anything, much less enough to obscure her gender) it's impossible to imagine them fooling anyone. Sometimes, the game takes advantage of the gender-flip to recontextualize the original mythology or history and tell good stories, such as making Raikou and "his" sister Ushigozen into two sides of the same being and adding depth to her relationship with Kintoki, or digging into Nobunaga's struggles with her family, then her retainers refusing to accept her rule despite her genius at least partly because she was not only a nonconformist but a woman. Other times, it is largely-gratuitous and seemingly changes little about the character, such as Ushiwakamaru's gender having no meaningful impact whatsoever on her difficulties communicating with or empathizing with others and her complex relationship with her ultimately treacherous brother, or Jing Ki (who doesn't even have a fanservice-y design and could easily pass for a long-haired pretty boy) being almost totally unchanged save for having a feminine voice actress and a series of running gags about her being a single lady and drinking to excess during couples' holidays.
  • The most common critique of the E. Pluribus Unum Singularity was that it felt less like an American story and more like a grab-bag story, featuring the Celtic servants, the Mahabharata, and the cast of Fate/EXTRA. But pretty much every Singularity before or since has had some characters who didn't fit the setting; most notably, the Hungarian Elizabeth Bathory's appearance in America, for example, was preceded by her popping up in France and Rome. The difference was that America was the first (and to-date only) Singularity where characters who didn't fit the theme far outnumbered ones that even arguably did: only three characters were actual Americans (Geronimo, Edison, and Billy the Kid), only two others have much connection to America (Helena Blavatsky and Tesla), and of those five, only Edison and Helena play even-somewhat significant roles in the story, with Tesla dropping in at the eleventh hour of the final battle and both Billy and Geronimo being unceremoniously bumped off soon after their introductions to instead concentrate on Nero, Elizabeth, and Robin Hood as primary allies. None of them even got the honor of being one of the three SSR characters introduced in America, who ended up being two Celts and an Englishwoman instead, and both Elizabeth and Nero are already often criticized as overexposed across multiple stories and events already; both of them had already received heavy story focus and got their own yearly events throughout Part 1, and Elizabeth got hers well into Part 2. In other words, the new characters who needed their screentime most were starved to instead feed two of the characters who needed it least.
    • One common criticism of the Agartha chapter is its use of rape, slavery, and oppression in a gender-inverted fashion deliberately designed to imitate ways men have oppressed women throughout history, which comes across as gratuitous, and even in poor taste. Nasu has always used uncomfortable themes in his stories, and not always gracefully. Tsukihime had many characters with slavery and sexual assault in their backstories, and the original Fate/stay night had many acts of sexual assault happen not only in the past but on-screen, with both going into detail on the long-term psychological damage this mistreatment caused to the cast. Even at the time, many complained that these things made these storylines too dark and depressing to properly entertain, or that the rape was unnecessary and used to add edge points that other forms of abuse could easily do instead. But, unlike Agartha, such seriousness was always treated, well, seriously, with the characters clearly impacted deeply and even damaged permanently by the horrors they'd encountered and suffered. Agartha, unfortunately, instead tended towards Mood Whiplash, such as making jokes about the Ambiguous Gender of the chapter's allied servants or the silly and fragile ego of the Assassin who rules the Nightless City, shortly after witnessing the horrific public torture of one of the city's male inhabitants for trying to escape. It made the social criticism and examination seem frivolous, like the story wasn't taking its themes seriously by letting them have an impact on the characters, and was instead just throwing them in for gloom's sake.
  • The Lostbelt Kings and Grand Servants (not counting the First Hassan, who came out years before them and was himself improved up to their level after the fact) are Purposefully Overpowered and limited characters who have basically distorted the entire metagame around themselves since release (the weakest of them, Ivan the Terrible, is "only" the absolute best servant in his class in the entire game, and is weaker simply because he focuses on having a complete performance to his peers' hyperspecialization in their niches). This has attracted many complaints of greed-fueled Power Creep from the playerbase over time, especially since it feels like more and more Challenge Quests are designed to provide challenges for these superpowered and rare characters that a majority of their players may not even have access to. Power Creep is nothing new in this game. Waver, after his buffs, could help trivialize most farming, Tamamo is only not seen as just as overpowered as many of her support caster peers because her schtick is more useful for enabling the Arts stall meta than faster playstyles, and Merlin is a limited and powerful Servant who also distorted the entire metagame around himself upon release, all of them receiving complaints of power-creep that obsoleted many other servants very hard. However, not only are two of those Servants in the general pool rather than limited, but the one who was not, Merlin, was originally advertised as the most overpowered servant the game designers would ever make... and he still showed up in pickups fairly often, as opposed to being potentially gone forever after his initial release, so it wasn't as if poorer and newer players would never see him again. Merlin was also seen as a one-off blip added at the conclusion of the game's first Myth Arc, rather than an overpowered monster of a servant literally added with each new individual story arc.note  And, of course, Challenge Quests and other difficult content were originally intended to be friendly to free players; something even new and underdeveloped rosters could get through with luck, effort, and strategy, serving as fun challenges to overcome even if Merlin could sometimes trivialize them. But in trying to present difficulties that could challenge even a high-paying player's mighty Lostbelt Kings, the gamemakers have made it less and less possible to beat with a normal, free player's roster without hacking the system to its limits. Finally, many free Servants made somewhat obsolete after the release of earlier powerhouses would often receive Rank Ups, trying to, if not bring them into parity, at least carve them niches to differentiate them from the competition, like Florence Nightingale's upgraded NP allowing her to impose debuffs on enemies with buff removal or Invulnerability Pierce that would ignore Merlin's defensive measures, or Jeanne's Noble Phantasm losing its self-stun and adding a debuff cleanse to make her a premier defensive support despite Tamamo's stiff competition in Arts teams. But since at least one Lostbelt King comes out each story arc, such enhancements have become less and less common, since, after all, a new one's to keep on coming and helping the less-powerful servants keep up is a losing battle.

MisterSnuffy Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#13: Jun 19th 2020 at 8:02:15 AM

[up] who unironically writes this shit?

Nouct insert commentary here from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
insert commentary here
#14: Jun 19th 2020 at 8:34:39 AM

*Checks page history*

This was all written by someoneman.

My main issue is there's so much venting about the game, some of which seems like it fits the trope, some of which seems like blatant shoehorning to complain.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#15: Jun 28th 2020 at 2:16:22 PM

I was doing some cross wicking for a fanfic page I created and stumbled upon this thing in TheDragon.Fan Works:

  • This alternate take on Shadow Lady, a cyborgized and brainwashed What If? Palette Swap of Chun-Li. Instead of being forcibly kidnapped by Shadaloo, (as she was in the game), Chun-Li dies 15 minutes after giving birth, and it's unknown who the child's father was, as she was dating Ryu and Dan at the same time. Hearing that Chun-Li died, Shadaloo decided to steal her body, as she wasn't properly buried with the purpose of turning her into a pawn against Interpol. Fast forward 30 years later, she Came Back Wrong as an ultra high-tech Cyborg killing machine developed by Shadaloo. When the task was completed, they turned her into a living weapon, complete with a new name and transformed her into M. Bison's top assassin. Before her transformation into Shadow Lady, Chun-Li routinely foiled Shadaloo's plans at every turn, so it's apparent that her cyborgization was done in retaliation for her foiling many of their plans. And unlike Shadow (a cyborgified Charlie Nash), who escaped shortly after being transformed, Shadaloo added a Restraining Bolt to her programming so she remains fully obedient to Shadaloo at all times, essentially becoming a Dark Action Robot Girl. Since then, Bison, who had been looking for a potential new test subject for creating a prototype super soldier for Shadaloo after Shadow fled, found this in his arch-nemesis Chun-Li. Shadaloo had vastly improved on the conversion process since then, and it was only fitting that the one constant pain in Bison's side be given this 'honor', and hopefully, turn her into their main pawn against Interpol. But unlike Shadow (a cyborgized Charlie), who only received a few mechanical upgrades, Shadow Lady was designed to be a complete robot and be enslaved to her programming so she won't rebel against Shadaloo and follow their orders at all times. Designed to be the ultimate anti-Interpol weapon, she was sent out by the heinous Shadaloo leader to gather information on her former allies so they too could be turned into mindless cyborgs like Chun-Li and Charlie Nash were. It's unknown how much of Shadow Lady's body is organic and how much is mechanical, but it's speculated that much of her body, apart from her brain is full of servos, wires, circuit boards and motors. It's possible that M. Bison may have used the same technology on her that was used to create Cyber-Akuma. Even her iconic Odango Hair are now Robot Antennae, as it's speculated that she is receiving orders from Shadaloo and that she is being controlled via remote control. And given that she no longer breathes, her face is given a breathing apparatus, making her a female Darth Vader Clone, so expect her voice to either sound metallic or machine-like as well if possible, which is tied to the mask. As Shadow Lady, her formerly cheerful personality was obliterated, her body's physiology altered so it experienced no emotion apart from being an soulless and emotionless killing machine and serving as M. Bison's right-hand; and in essence, she is essentially a completely different person inhabiting her body and mind, and serves as nothing but a weapon against Interpol. Upon completion, her programming was complemented by extensive exercise to tone her muscles and combat training to ensure that she had all the skills required, including the use of a variety of weapons, though she would rarely need to use them. With her training complete, Shadow Lady's speed, combat skills and stealth capabilities made her the ideal assassin for Shadaloo. In a short period of time, this what-if version of Chun-Li goes from a strong-willed woman to a completely submissive gynoid working for one of the most notorious gaming bosses. What's sad to see that if her child (who may have been grown up by now) decides to fight her, they don't know that their mother has been revived as a brainwashed and cyborgized killing machine. Also, neither Ryu nor Dan are aware that their former date has been revived as a Brainwashed Robot Girl. All in all, while Chun-Li is back again, she's now more of an Empty Shell, with no record of her old memories as they've been overridden with pre-programmed directives ordering her to be an emotionless and ruthless assassin for Shadaloo, essentially condemning her to a Fate Worse than Death via Death of Personality, Loss of Identity and Cybernetics Eat Your Soul. Even if her allies ever managed to revive her, she would have to deal with the guilt of being a tool for Shadaloo, not to mention the fact that being a minion for Shadaloo wouldn't magically go away overnight should she become a good person again. It's also been implied that deep down, the old Chun-Li is still there on some level, and is at least partially aware of what she has done. But she's now a roboticized assassin-droid, so she has no control over the actions of what her body does.
I don't know what to do with this.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
burgerants Since: Mar, 2020
#16: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:41:12 AM

What constitutes a wall of text? More specifically, what is the community guideline for using bullet points? I'm asking because I keep seeing my edits get cut down to size.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#17: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:52:11 AM

Generally speaking, if you have to scroll through a single entry, it's way too long. I'd say 300 words is probably the maximum length an entry can be before it goes on longer than it needs too.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#18: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:52:31 AM

[up][up] There's no real guideline but my rule of thumb is that if you need to scroll to read it (especially on mobile) it's too long. Sometimes it can't be helped but 99.99% of the time you can always trim something down.

Another good way to judge is if your eyes get tired looking at it. If you can't bother reading something because it's just too much, it's a wall of text.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 30th 2020 at 1:52:33 PM

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burgerants Since: Mar, 2020
#19: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:17:02 AM

Ooph. 300 words. That's not a whole lot.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
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#20: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:18:57 AM

Well, having that limit in mind might help you be more creative and concise about how you explain things. Instead of giving the full story, you can train yourself to focus on specific details and to use the limit to your advantage instead of a disadvantage.

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burgerants Since: Mar, 2020
#21: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:23:29 AM

Ok, riddle me this: Say I'm editing an article about a film series. Do I have to condense the series into 300 words, or can I break it up into manageable chunks with bullets?

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
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#22: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:24:58 AM

Do you mean the description?

I'd say that at the very least each paragraph should be limited to around 300 words.

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burgerants Since: Mar, 2020
#23: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:29:55 AM

Well, it's a unique situation. A trio of editors, including myself, are working on the Sequelitis article. The biggest entries are the usual suspects: Matrix, Pirates, Terminator, Star Trek. Long-runners with anywhere from six to a dozen movies.

To take an example: Say I want to summarize why the latter Captain Picard movies were disappointments (critically and commercially). Can I sum up both films with 300 words apiece, or do I condense his whole tenure?

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
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#24: Jun 30th 2020 at 12:11:32 PM

Let me clarify that I meant 300 words per entry. Not 300 words for a whole tree. Sub-bullets should aim to be short, but combined that can exceed 300 words. Just don't go overboard with listing every single detail. Just the broad strokes should be fine.

In the case you cited, a single sub-bullet should cover a single film in a franchise in less than 300 words. Just bring up why the sequel was seen as a drop in quality and some of the biggest critiques. There's no need to have separate sub-bullets for multiple issues of the film, as that's basically compounding the point.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jun 30th 2020 at 3:14:39 PM

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#25: Jun 30th 2020 at 12:15:08 PM

Yeah, the main cause of wall-of-text examples is trying to add every minute detail even if it doesn't need to be there. As long as you focus on the important stuff, it shouldn't be a big deal if it gets a little wordy. Just remember to ask yourself: "is this information necessary to understand the trope/work/etc?"

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