This is on Cats:
- Never Live It Down:
- Public perception of the movie became impossible to salvage after the extremely negative reaction to the trailers.
- Within the movie itself, "The Gumbie Cat" is the first song sung by a cat aspiring to be the Jellicle Choice, but it's one of the most offputting musical numbers, with Rebel Wilson spreading her legs to show off her Barbie Doll Anatomy and eating roaches with human faces. Because this song comes so early in the show, it gives the audience a bad impression of the entire rest of the movie.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Misuse, not about character action.
I was cleaning up misuse under DC Extended Universe, those that fail to explain how it's unfair exaggeration. It left only one entry.
- Infamously, the Thou Shall Not Kill aversion. Granted, Superman did so only as a last resort to save a family and he was obviously anguished about having to take a life it. Nonetheless, it is still cited and brought up by DCEU detractors as emblematic of everything they consider to be wrong with the film series, particularly with the lack of prior setup or follow-up.
Is this worth keeping or moving? It seems a bit to the complaining/negative side, fix?
I don't see a problem with that. NLID is inherently negative, but the entry refrains from bashing the character or fans/haters.
Uh, Never Live It Down is not inherently negative. It can have negative effects, but the thing that a character can't live down doesn't actually have to involve audience criticism or the like.
The example itself is probably legit, mind you. Though I always had the impression that the bigger problem most people had with the climax, and which had follow-on effects for the franchise's audience perception, was the ridiculous amount of collateral damage.
Edited by nrjxll on Jun 4th 2020 at 9:46:29 AM
So keep and rework. One question: Word of God is Superman's regret over doing so caused him to adopt his Thou Shall Not Kill policy, did that come off as an Informed Attribute in later installments?
I assume NeverLiveItDown.DC Extended Universe should be cut if there is only one example? Should it be?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 4th 2020 at 9:36:17 AM
Honestly this example seems more like an example on the work rather than characters.
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she/her
Either way, it should be cut for only having one example. I don't know what the guideline is for a trope's examples from one work to be split onto its own page, but I know it's a lot more than one.
Edited by Serac on Jun 4th 2020 at 1:09:22 PM
I deleted this from YMMV.The Last Of Us Part II as it fails to explain how it is an unfair exaggeration per prior cleanups and was redundant with Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
- Never Live It Down: For audiences, Abby's incredibly sadistic murder of Joel, in front of Ellie no less, pretty much torpedoed any sympathy that her backstory would invoke (which wasn't helped by the fact said backstory isn't shown until long after she killed Joel and right after she killed Jesse). And if that wasn't enough, she later tries to murder Dina, and expresses no remorse when she learns that Dina is pregnant at this point. This is part of why ND's attempts to make Abby sympathetic have completely fallen flat for some fans.
The troper who added it PM'd me arguing the NILP page stated "Sometimes, this is perfectly understandable, if that action or event stands out more than anything else the character did." Was that missed when we stared cleanup or what? That brings up the use of this trope to RL events...
My impression is even if their actions are such the NILD is justified, it still needs to explain how they are unfairly ignoring mitigating traits. Thoughts?
UPDATE: I looked over the pang and the "Sometimes, this is perfectly understandable" was being used to state Well, This Is Not That Trope.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 28th 2020 at 8:05:47 AM
Angry babby
Can I get some feedback on YMMV.The Nostalgia Critic? Some feel low on context, others seem too general, still others seem to be troping Doug and Rob in real life disregarding the "25 years" rule. and I don't know if others count since it seems to be a minority of fans who stayed mad.
- He only really did "shouting and shooting in front of a camera" for the first couple of years, toning it down for the last couple of prime seasons, and even less after the first season of reboot, but he'll always be associated with "violent yelling" comedy no matter what else he does. This has been addressed in-universe, with Critic scared and insecure that the only reason why anyone watches is because he can swear a lot, and considering himself a bad shouty critic is one of the reasons why he's suicidal in To Boldly Flee.
- Doug has admitted to regretting "Bat Credit Card" and the review it came from because having to do the joke constantly does a number on his voice and he felt he could have done better with the episode. But unfortunately it'll be a cold day in hell before Critic/BCC stop getting associated with each other.
- The giant TMZ rant in "Top 11 South Park Episodes". TMZ were pissed at Doug for going overboard in hating their fans, which led to the A.I. episode that made Doug and Rob look like bratty children, and Doug eventually regretted both the tantrum and the latter review because he felt like they were some of the cruelest things he's ever done.
- Less amongst fandom and more in their own circles, Doug gets mocked a lot for getting so angry at his computer failing that he punched a hole in a wall, and Rob brings up quite often that he lost it at The Cat in the Hat and strangled Doug, who always likes to point out he was genuinely freaked out.
- "Why Is Loki So Hot". Even Rob brought it up in The Lorax behind the scenes footage as one of Doug's mean-spirited jabs at fangirls.
- For the same reasons as each other, Critic hitting Evilina in The Cat in the Hat and his creepy Slut-Shaming of fourteen year old girls in the Sailor Moon review. The former was at least acknowledged in Alice in Wonderland (2010), where he does the same to Malice and she threatens to stab him.
- Rob gets a lot of disappointed remembering of how he dismissed Korrasami, didn't know what the fuss was about regarding Mystery Girl, and made transphobic jokes about Stevonnie. And while Doug has bounced around happy at anything gay/trans in shows, and got Stevonnie's pronoun right, it's not like he calls Rob out on any of this.
- Doug eating a dragon dildo cummed cinnabon at a con. Not so much for the accidental sexual aspect, he's done more extreme than that knowingly at cons, but who assumes a bun on a desk is just there for the taking?
- In real reviews/sibling rivalry, Doug gets teased plenty about off-camera calling people who liked the Mortal Kombat film pussies and not real MK fans when a) in that review he told them they could like what they like and b) he didn't have any reason to be angry as Rob was the one who got He Panned It, Now He Sucks!.
None of them—bar the first one—say why they're an unfair exaggeration, which a NLID entry requires. Setting that aside...
- Seems fine.
- Not sure if this is troping the Critic or Doug.
- Seems to be a meta example, which violates the 25 year rule.
- Real life. Cut.
- Zero Context Example. Real life example?
- Needs to say why it's an unfair exaggeration.
- Real life. Cut.
- Real life. Cut.
- Real life. Cut.
This is on Kangaroo Jack:
- Never Live It Down: Aside from its unprecedented box office success in the face of its poor critical reception, the sloppy effort to turn a mobster movie into a family-friendly animal comedy is certainly this.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Cut, since it's about the film itself instead of the characters.
Bringing up this example from The Flash:
- Never Live It Down: Relating to the above meme, Barry messing with timelines. The fans will likely never let it go. This is largely motivated by the fact DC themselves tried to forget it happened immediately after, and as an unintended consequence of Dan DiDio's preference for Darker and Edgier and Younger and Hipper, and using the reboot to wipe out characters he personally didn't like; by making everyone else's lives miserable while Barry himself becomes a young man again, and some even being, essentially, erased from reality, Barry became a massive Karma Houdini for ruining the lives of the entire universe.
Here are groups of examples from NeverLiveItDown.Video Games:
- Nintendo;
- Nintendo will always be considered the gaming patron saint of bowdlerization. Never mind they have gotten past the Never Say "Die" point as early as the Nintendo 64-era, and how they're the more lenient company nowadays, with multiplatform games having less censorship on Nintendo systems (or at least the same, but not more). Sure, they still censor some stuff every now and then, but no more than the others and only when localizing their own titles. Ironically, the most censor-happy company right now is Sony. The same Sony who supposedly is Darker and Edgier than Nintendo. Of note: Several of the entries for the Cluster F-Bomb Video Games page are Wii exclusives, including No More Heroes, MadWorld, and The House of the Dead: OVERKILL, which had a Guinness World Record for the number of F-bombs dropped during the game. This is all to day that while Nintendo themselves won't be making their games with extreme violence or sexual content anytime soon, they have absolutely no qualms with publishing games by 3rd parties that have such content. One notable example are the Nintendo character costumes in Bayonetta, where Nintendo actually rejected earlier designs because they felt they were too modest for a character like Bayonetta.
- On a related note is Nintendo Treehouse localisations. The way some people talk, you would think these localisations are inferior to the original Japanese, changing things for the sake of it and feature far more changes than previous games.
- Every new Nintendo console game is a Mario game, and it being Nintendo's only franchise of note. Mario being Nintendo's mascot, its biggest Cash-Cow Franchise, & still one of the most popular video game franchise of all time make some believe that it's the only franchise Nintendo makes. Others believe that The Legend of Zelda and Pokémon also count as this, though the fact of the matter is that Nintendo probably has a dozen major franchises that drive their hardware to similar degrees, such as Animal Crossing.
- Nintendo's official magazine in Spain, Nintendo Acción will always be considered to be extremely biased towards Pokémon. During the height of the Pokémon craze, they had Pokécovers nearly every month, but that's more Wolverine Publicity than actual bias. Same for having an extra mini-magazine focused on Pokémon. Nowadays they don't cover them much more than they cover Mario or Zelda games. In fact, if anything they have a Zelda bias, with all Zelda games getting huge scores without exception (and The Wind Waker getting the only perfect score so far), talking about the sagas as if it was super-popular everywhere (even in Japan, where, while not unpopular, is not that big compared to its Western fandom) and claim Link is the best character on all three Super Smash Bros. games (in the first and third, he's currently at the lowest tier of the Tier Lists. On Melee he's mid-tier), yet nobody accuses them of favoring the Zelda series.
In fact, you could count on one hand which examples on the entire page fit the trope.
Rock'n'roll never dies!
A lot of examples on NLID Web Original are on internet personalities, some of which are characters, but some of which are "characters", as in they're the creator's actual opinions but maybe 10% more angry, so the line is more blurry. Members of Channel Awesome, ProtonJon, Mr. Enter, etc. have entries that blur that line. Which ones can be cut?
Someone added this to YMMV.Sonic Forces
- For Sonic Team as a whole, the mixed to negative reception torwards the story and gameplay in comparison to the Promoted Fanboy developed Sonic Mania has tainted their reputation in the eyes of many Sonic fans, to the point that they wish that Sega should fire them from working on the Sonic series for their incompetence and have Christian Whitehead, Headcannon, and Pagoda West Games (all of them developers of the aboved mention Mania) the new developers of the franchise.
I have a feeling that there should be a list of YMMV reactions that ban meta examples like this, similar to In-Universe Examples Only and No Real Life Examples, Please!.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Aug 2nd 2020 at 4:13:01 PM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Kirby is shaped like a friend
You mean we don't have one already? Then we should by all means make one.
Industrious Incisors
I was thinking that unless the YMMV is explicitly meta, like Scapegoat Creator, then there should be no meta YMMV examples.
SoundCloud
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Real Life instances of Never Live It Down require a 25 year waiting period before they can be added, as listed on No Recent Examples, Please!. Cut that entry.
Friends forevermore
Is Chris Benoit's murder-suicide a "real life" example?
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Since it happened outside Kayfabe, I'd say so.
So I was considering adding an entry on the Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS page about Aoi's faceplant after losing in episode 34 considering it's often brought up as "proof" that she never accomplishes anything and is constantly humiliated throughout the show... But I also wondered if I should make note of her statement in the last episode that she "didn't do anything" as well since it seemed to cement that idea in a lot of fans' eyes. However, it seems like we're only supposed to list one moment. Would it be possible for me to offhandedly mention that they second part didn't help in stopping that fan interpretaion, or should I just mention the first part since it's the more major moment?
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
- Never Live It Down: John Landis will forever be remembered as the director whose recklessness on the set led to a fatal helicopter crash which killed Vic Morrow and two child actors, My-Ca Dinh Le and Renee Shin-Yi Chen. In the early days of Comic Con, which Landis attended, it was common for attendees to follow him from behind and snap dollar bills next to his ear to imitate the sound of helicopter blades as a cruel prank. When Landis' son Max became controversial in his own right, many joked that John should have been more of a "helicopter parent."
I’m not sure about this one. It’s well 25 years since it happened but it doesn’t explain how it’s exaggerated. Also, is this even the right page for it? This entry’s more about the director than the movie, so shouldn’t it stay on NeverLiveItDown.Real Life? The entry there looks a little better after all.
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Thing is, IDK if it qualifies as an "unfair" thing to harp on because Mineta's entire personality for a majority of the work so far is just that he was the pervert who always made those sexual comments- the one he directed at Eri was just the last straw for the fans who already didn't like him because of this, but it also wasn't a one-off incident either.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness