Too Bleak, Stopped Caring

It gets misused a lot, to basically mean "I don't like how dark this work is".

In fact, the landscape of media has gotten more dark in general, with tv in particular standing out, and its because shows like that are popular.

Succession, Game of Thrones, The Last of Us, and so on.

So a lot of these bad examples feel like they're knee jerk reactions from people who dont like such darkness. And of course it's totally fine not to be into dark stuff, but its outright deception to project those views onto audiences as a whole.

That's why we need some sort of objective criteria, or people can put it on anything.

There's also a lot of flat-out misuse where people are mistaking it for something else, like Ending Aversion.

Edited by ArthurEld on Sep 16th 2023 at 8:02:50 AM

We have Angst Aversion to cover works that are too dark as opposed to the criteria of TBSC. So what's the point of TBSC? AA is supposed to be avoiding works on reputation as opposed to viewing and disliking, but few I've seen fit that (and sounds like Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch as opposed to trope worthy).

So should a TRS to fix this start with AA or TBSC? And any last objections to cutting the Warhammer 40K examples as a long running popular for it's darkness series doesn't count (barring specific moments it fixed which this one isn't)?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Sep 16th 2023 at 10:01:06 AM

I guess it would depend on which takes more work to fix, that one should probably get the TRS treatment.

There is something specific at the core of TBSC. Previous fans/audience of a work lose interest as the work's morals get increasingly murky. It's that, like so many tropes that can be used as a stealthly way of complaining (Narm is another one, Narm has a specific meaning but it gets used to be "anything I don't like/find silly/make fun of and then say it's laguhabe") there is lots and lots of misuse. It's part of why the trope had to be renamed in the first place.

I currently lean to TRS Angst Aversion first as it has the clearer criteria that are being misused (avoiding the work as opposed to disliking it). Deciding limits/rules for that might help with TBSC which has more nebulas/complex criteria.

How are these for criteria for AA/TBSC TRS?

• Correct: stop caring what happens. TBSC only
• Correct: avoiding work due to darkness. AA only'
• Just complaining about darkness.
• Objective proof audiences were turned off.

Asking again about this.

• Warhammer 40,000 is a game that was meant to be as over-the-top satirical in its grimdark setting for the sake of humor. However, there have been periods in the game's history where the creators at Games Workshop have forgotten or at least downplayed the intended black comedy of the setting, treating the material as deadly serious. This has made the already cost prohibitive hobby less appealing to potential players. The swing-around back in the other direction is rarely a change in how dark the series is, but rather how it's treated.

Any last objections before cutting it as the series is too long-running/successful to count, and this example fails to give specific stories/moments that might count?

Yes, that's a clear cut.

Again, people like the darkness of 40K, whether they're playing it ironically or enjoying it played more straight. Maybe if it had focused on a particular line of novels or something, but as it is, it's just a bunch of vague nonsense.

To Whom It May Concern:

While looking at the YMMV page for Goosebumps, I found this under "The Books — In General)":

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: In a series often full of Straw Loser/The Unfavorite protagonists who frequently receive Disproportionate Retribution for minor misdeeds and/or are often the victims of Cruel Twist Endings, the Goosebumps universe can often seem like a rather crapsack world to be a part of. A good example is Dr. Maniac Will See You Now. Every single character aside from the protagonist is unlikable in some form. Ernie is a brat, the parents are constantly arguing and putting Richard Dreezer, and Bree is an Alpha Bitch. Even the actual villains look better. After a while, it's hard to really care that much about what's going on.

If that's true, then what about the others? Should these Goosebumps-Inspired works be classified as Too Bleak, Stopped Caring, too, judging from their Main and/or YMMV Pages?

Deadtime Stories (Book/Show):

• Cruel Twist Ending: Used in just about every episode. They range from "boo!" type surprises, to the implication that the heroes are still in major danger. There's even a The Bad Guy Wins ending.
• Every Episode Ending: Every episode ends with the characters in the story, and the kids who are being read the story, looking at each other and screaming.

Shivers:

• The series follows in the footsteps of Goosebumps, but has the tendency to be much darker.
• What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?:
  • The books were intended for the same age group (preadolescents) as Goosebumps, and while Goosebumps could get dark and violent, Shivers did so somewhat more frequently, while also being much more explicit in its depictions of dark subject matter like murder and gun violence in various books, Native American genocide and historical revisionism in Pool Ghoul and Ghosts of Camp Massacre, filicide in The Thing in Room 601 and A Ghostly Playmate, self-hatred in A Waking Nightmare, grief and loss in The Ghosts of Devil's Marsh, child abuse in Creepy Clothes, and class, racial, and religious persecution (as graphically demonstrated through wax recreations of things like the Atlantic Slave Trade, The Spanish Inquisition, The Holocaust, The Troubles, the Arab–Israeli Conflict, etc.) in Weirdo Waldo's Wax Museum.
  • The series could sometimes get surprisingly sexually suggestive, like when Samantha expresses fear of being attacked by "perverts" in Ghosts of Camp Massacre or when a mother calls her son a "filthy boy" after being told that he has been browsing adult chatrooms and websites with names like "X-Dreams" in Weirdo Waldo's Wax Museum. The Curse of the New Kid is probably the most boundary-pushing book, as it contains a scene in which the protagonist mentions that his parents spend every Friday night locked in their bedroom watching implicitly pornographic videos, and another in which a bully seemingly tries to sexually assault a girl, pinning her against a tree and making lascivious-sounding comments like, "You can have her when I'm through" as the girl cries, "Stop! Stop it! Please! I'll scream. Help! Somebody help!"

Strange Matter:

• While similar to Goosebumps in overall concept, many of its plotlines were noticeably darker, and it was aimed at slightly older readers. Deaths of human beings, including teenagers, could actually happen onstage, particularly in the Strange Forces series. It didn't shy away from very frightening imagery and Fate Worse than Death scenarios were common. It also shared R.L. Stine's penchant for Twist Endings.
• The End... Or Is It?: Most of the novels ended with some hint that the danger hadn't passed or a Tomato in the Mirror situation.
• Humans Are Bastards: A few novels, particularly Second Sighting, had this as a prominent theme.
• What Happened to the Mouse?: A large number of books in the series end with some kind of twist ending, either suggesting that the danger isn't over or revealing a Tomato in the Mirror type situation. The majority of these are never followed up on, even when the characters in question make appearances in future books. A few examples.

Fear Street:

• Bittersweet Ending: Several books end with the protagonist surviving and the villain defeated, but it's not a completely happy ending.
• Cruel and Unusual Death: A franchise staple.
• Everybody Lives: A few books have all characters survive, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a happy ending.
• Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
  • A good chunk of the teenage protagonists come across as pretty unlikable despite all the horrible stuff that happens to them. Carter Phillips, and many of the Shadyside Seniors, either for being whiny, for actually doing something horrible and not receiving any punishment for it, or for being a boring, flat asshole.

The Nightmare Room (Books/Show):

• Unlike Goosebumps, the stories are much darker and the kid heroes don't always win in the end.
• Bloodier and Gorier: Some of the books can get a tad more violent than Goosebumps but They Call Me Creature gets a special mention for featuring many scenes with gruesome descriptions of dead animals, as well as a scene where a bat explodes, spewing its guts everywhere.
• Darker and Edgier: The series follows in the steps of Goosebumps Series 2000 in being darker, from having more gore to a more somber and serious tone in books like The Howlwer and They Call Me Creature.

The Haunting Hour (Literature):

• Cruel Twist Ending: As to be expected. This is R. L. "Goosebumps" Stine, after all.
• Would Hurt a Child: Yes.

The Haunting Hour (TV Show):

• Compared to Goosebumps, the stories are much, much darker. There was even a disclaimer about its content before the episodes began!
• What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: For a show geared towards families, there sure is an awful lot of brutal child death, monstrous imagery, grisly fates, gothic symbolism, and suggestive themes.
• Cruel Twist Ending: At least half of the episodes end in these...
• Darker and Edgier: It's darker than Stine's earlier works Goosebumps and the short-lived series The Nightmare Room, and, while some episodes do have happy endings or come off as the kind of cheesy stories that R.L. Stine did in the 1990s, the majority of Haunting Hour episodes are darker and have endings that are either cruel or don't make any sense, no matter how many times you watch it.
• Family-Unfriendly Death: Naturally, as an R.L. Stine work there's a ton of brutal child death featured.
• Gory Discretion Shot: Most of the deaths that occur are usually not fully seen. Justified, as this show aired on a family-friendly network and some of the violence had to be toned down to PG levels (which makes it more disturbing than just showing the gore and horror outright).
• Horrible Judge of Character: A lot of the protagonists fail to see that the people they trust are Evil All Along or more powerful than them. These kind of characters don't last long against the villains.
• Humans Are the Real Monsters: Many of the stories' antagonists (and protagonists, in the cases of "Headshot" and "Funhouse") are really messed-up people whose inner demons are scarier than any monster, ghost, vampire, or legendary creature you can name.
• Karma Houdini: Since this is a horror show, The Bad Guy Wins almost all the time.
• Kids Are Cruel / Teens Are Monsters: Used throughout the series. Notably played with in Swarmin' Norman: The kids watching Norman get picked on by the school bullies laugh when the latter make fun of Norman's science project; they immediately stop laughing when the bullies proceed to beat Norman up.
• Knight of Cerebus: Most of the villains are incredibly dark even by the show's standards and the usual standards of an R.L. Stine children's horror story.
• No Ontological Inertia: Largely averted throughout the series. Defeating the Monster of the Week doesn't necessarily undo whatever havoc they wreaked.
• Oh, Crap!: Usually present in the Cruel Twist Ending.
• Would Harm a Child: Many of the villains,

Nightmare Hour:

• Cruel Twist Ending: Most of the stories have one, naturally.

Weenies:

• And I Must Scream: A few stories end with the child protagonist not dying, but instead being trapped in a horrible situation with no hope of escape.
• Body Horror: Accentuated through graphic descriptions.
• Darker and Edgier: It's often been considered much darker than other kids anthologies like Goosebumps. The main reason? Characters actually get the friggin ax in this series! Not to mention having downright mean endings for characters that aren't even that villainous.
• Family-Unfriendly Death: As you can tell by now, the series is full of these. To name one particularly nasty example, Lost and Found has the kids being murdered with a knife.
• What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: Gruesome monsters, horrifying predicaments, characters that aren't even that villainous getting cruel punishments, people getting away with murder, and yet it's commonly found in the children's section of libraries!

==================================

Come to think of it, while I am on the subject,

If The Outer Limits is considered to be Too Bleak, Stopped Caring in its YMMV Page and the TBSC Page itself:

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: This show ran on so many uses of the Cruel Twist Ending that it was the former Trope Namer. This says it all. It should be noted that many of the show's best-regarded episodes completely dispense with the Cruel Twist Ending, making it even more lamentable that it was constantly used as a narrative crutch by the writers.

• This is one of the trademark issues with The Outer Limits (1963) and in particular the 1995-2001 version: people from all walks of life suffer from nasty, cruel, and depressing fates regardless of the optimistic direction that the story may have seemed to be going in or even if they're truly deserving of it or not (to the point that Cruel Twist Ending was originally named Outer Limits Ending). While it may have lasted longer than the first two of rival series The Twilight Zone's revivals combined, it's still much harder to come by than its competitor and has yet to receive another revival of its own.
  • To elaborate on the differences between the two series: In the original, the main characters and/or their loved ones often wound up badly, but at least they always saved humanity through a Heroic Sacrifice. In the revival, those sacrifices often turned out to be All for Nothing, as many episodes ended with the world being taken over or destroyed by evil aliens despite the heroes' actions... or sometimes, because of them.

And American Horror Story has a TBSC Trope listed on its main YMMV page (which clearly states "This page is for the entire anthology"),

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: The show tends to have this for some people (specifically the middle seasons such as "Hotel" and "Roanoke"), whether the characters are just unbearable Jerkasses, the constant usage of adultery, the Black-and-Gray Morality the characters have, or even the fact Anyone Can Die ruins any interests some have with the show.

Then what about the others?

Creepshow (TV Show):

• Bittersweet Ending: If an episode has a sympathetic protagonist, it usually ends with them having survived whatever horrific mayhem the episode revolved around, even though there's still been a ton of carnage.
• Downer Ending: Plenty of episodes end with the protagonist being killed or subject to some other horrible fate, though they usually deserve it. The endings of "Twittering from the Circus of the Dead", "Time Out", and "Gray Matter" particularly qualify, since they end with the implicit deaths of sympathetic protagonists who clearly didn't deserve what they had coming to them.

Darkroom:

• Cruel Twist Ending: A staple of the series. Pretty much every episode has a twist that means the lead character is going to suffer either death or a Fate Worse than Death, even if they did nothing to deserve it. About the only exception was Billy Crystal's character hitting the Karmic Jackpot in "Make-Up."

Fear Itself:

• Cruel Twist Ending: Roughly two-thirds of their twists. One of them was so horrible, we almost considered renaming the trope "The Family Man Twist"!
• Downer Ending: Standard. Always the episodes with the Cruel Twist Ending.

Freddy's Nightmares:

• The Bad Guy Wins: Freddy never loses in his episodes.
• Downer Ending: A lot of episodes end this way.
• Karma Houdini: Freddy, who (at least in the TV show) is never defeated by anyone.

Hora Marcada

• Downer Ending: A good chunk of the episodes have this kind of ending.
• Too Dumb to Live: Some victims can be considered guilty of this.

Inside No. 9

• Anyone Can Die: There is no Plot Armor for any of the protagonists in the series and it's your guess as to who lives and who dies.
• Bittersweet Ending: In general, this is about as light an ending as you can expect from this show; it might not be a complete downer for all the characters, but it's rarely unambiguously happy either.
• Downer Ending: Almost every episode, though a couple have a Bittersweet Ending instead.

Masters Of Horror

• Gorn: Loads of it. Takashi Miike (who else?) had so much in his episode that it was banned from broadcast.
• The Hero Dies: Many a Downer Ending would end up with the hero being killed by the episode's monster or villain.
• Torture Porn: Several episodes, especially in the second season.

Night Gallery

• Darker and Edgier: This show leans more towards horror than Rod Serling's previous series, The Twilight Zone.
• The Bad Guy Wins: Several episodes, such as "Since Aunt Ada Came To Stay." The ending implies the witch was indeed successful in her Body Swap. "A Feast of Blood" is another example.
• Downer Ending: Several, such as "The Boy Who Predicted Earthquakes", which ends with the young seer predicting that the sun will soon go nova and explode, engulfing the earth.

Night Visions

• Cruel Twist Ending: Many of the stories have this. The only notable exceptions are "Dead Air" and "Voices".

Tales From The Crypt

• The Bad Guy Wins: Given this is a horror series, this happens at times.
• Bloodier and Gorier: Than the comics, which were 'plenty' gory enough on their own.
• Blood Is the New Black: Every episode ends up with someone getting gorily dismembered, if not the main character.
• Cruel Twist Ending: A few episodes.
• Darker and Edgier: The whole show in general is Darker and Edgier than the comics, although they weren't exactly family-friendly to start with: The lack of censorship allowed them to basically throw in as much sex, violence and swearing as they liked.
• Evil Versus Evil: Several episodes have this happen, usually with a violent or murderous criminal doing battle with a supernatural entity, or two supernatural beasts fighting each other.
• Faux Affably Evil: Several main characters and the Crypt Keeper himself.
• Idiot Ball: There's often an easy way to avoid the horrible fates characters either have in store or bring upon themselves, but a firm grasp on this keeps them from thinking of it.
• Karma Houdini: The Crypt Keeper himself is one, considering the occasions he's periodically tortured, mutilated, and/or killed people during the bookends. He occasionally gets tortured and/or mutilated himself, but then, he likes stuff like that.

Tales From The Darkside

• It's also known for its Cruel Twist Endings.
• The Bad Guy Wins: In a horror series, this trope is expected.
• Cruel Twist Ending: It really says a lot about this show that the number of episodes that have an unambiguous happy ending is less than half of the total number of episodes of the show, including the pilot.
• Darker and Edgier: If you compare it to The Twilight Zone, it is. In fact, this still holds true you compare it to The New Twilight Zone, which aired during this show's lifetime.
• Death by Irony: A common trope utilized throughout the series. Many characters die a gruesome death related to a unique character trait they possess.
• Disproportionate Retribution: A hallmark of various supernatural beings on the series,
• Downer Ending: Usually mixed in with a Cruel Twist Ending, but some are more sad than scary.
• Fate Worse than Death: When it's not under And I Must Scream, the endings will sometimes fall under this. For instance, the protagonist in "Lifebomb" gets a device from his insurance company that will never let him die...ever.
• Karmic Twist Ending: If the character we follow is a Jerkass or extremely annoying then this is the kind of ending that awaits them. Surprisingly, the show has as many as these as they do Cruel Twist Ending.
• Your Soul Is Mine!: After a boy tries everything to stop "The Cutty Black Sow" from coming after the souls of his family, the demon takes his soul instead in the Cruel Twist Ending.

The Twilight Zone (1958)

• Downer Ending: A number of episodes leave on a bad note.

The Twilight Zone (1985)

• Darker and Edgier: While somewhat tame compared to other 80s anthologies like Tales from the Darkside or Freddy's Nightmares, the show still had several segments which were purely horror in nature, unlike the original series.
• Downer Ending: Happens fairly regularly.

The Twilight Zone (2002)

• Downer Ending: As per the standard of The Twilight Zone.

The Twilight Zone (2019):

• Darker and Edgier: Not that previous series were light, but this TV-MA version ups the profanity and sexual content.
• Downer Ending: Several.
• They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: One of the criticisms most have with this iteration is that they feel the writers went way too far into horror and had too many stories that went into bad endings. Stating that while yes, the series did have it fair share of horror, it leaned more into the surreal for the most part and wasn't afraid to go into other genres like comedy or romance just with an otherworldly bent which this version rarely does. Likewise feeling the tone is more akin to The Outer Limits (1995) than Twilight Zone.

Two Sentence Horror Stories:

• Bittersweet Ending: Many of the episodes end on this note.
• The End... Or Is It?: Staple for a horror anthology.

=====================================

And finally, I'd like to address The Laughing Salesman Manga/Anime Series, which has lots of tropes that would make it a good candidate for Too Bleak, Stopped Caring as well:

• All for Nothing: This will typically be the results of most of Moguro's customers' goals or dreams. Either Moguro will undo it or they'll undo it to themselves for not listening to him.
• Be Careful What You Wish For: Not that you have a chance to refuse, he will always screw you over.
• Bittersweet Ending: The best you can hope for if you cross paths with Moguro is following the rule he stipulates no matter how much trouble it causes you, and enjoys what you get in exchange.
• Break the Haughty: Moguro really doesn't like it when his customers start getting cocky from his help. When they do get cocky, he makes sure they suffer.
• Crapsaccharine World: The setting is colorful and cartoony like any other Fujio manga series, but it's bogged down by many of the difficulties of the real world. In fact, the foibles of society are sometimes integral to the downfall of certain characters such as two office workers who have to quit their jobs in The May Blues because their peers can't respect that they knit as a hobby.
• Cruel Twist Ending: Most of the story will end with Moguro's customers and/or their colleague suffering from his handy work after thinking they're in the clear.
• Deal with the Devil: Some of Moguro's conditions are so reasonable, you'll wonder why anyone would ever break them in the first place. Others... much less so. That's when they fall into this trope.
• Disproportionate Retribution: Moguro's disapproval and disappointment when some of his clients breaks a promise, a deal, or just his trust is understandable, especially in cases where his help actually does make his client's life better. But when he strikes back, he usually goes overboard.
• Driven to Madness: Happens to many of Moguro's clients. Sometimes it's because they get too obsessed with whatever he gave them, sometimes it's the effect of him DO Ning them, and sometimes it's a mix of both.
• Evil Has a Bad Sense of Humor: Moguro finds humor in what most people would think is tragic.
• It Amused Me: Moguro's driving motivation in whatever he does.
• Outright says this in the A story for episode 7A of NEW. He only picks his latest victim cause he was passing by, and was feeling playful.
• Jackass Genie: He will give you what you want, but will still screw you over in the end, even if you refuse his help. Especially when you refuse his help.
• Karma Houdini: Moguro always gets away with screwing over his customers and never suffers any consequences.
• Kick the Dog: Moguro just loves doing this to all of his customers regardless of who they are.
• Morton's Fork: Accept his help? You will eventually do something to betray his expectations or worst, deny he had anything to do with your success. Refuse his help? He will screw you over anyway.
• Nightmare Fetishist: The mere fact that Moguro finds humor in the atrocities that follow in his wake lands him in this territory. In the ending monologue of Episode 8A of NEW, he actually finds the concept of Yandere love romantic and hope he himself gets to experience that someday!
• Once per Episode: In every episode, Moguro will narrate the beginning that everyone has something they need while his customer is being introduced and the episode ends with Moguro making a quip about his customer's predicament and laughs.
• Refuge in Audacity: There's a lot of things that Moguro has done to screw over all of his customers that it's hard to choose which one is the worst. He broke up families, relationships, and friendships, he drove several people insane, he ruins everybody's life, and he just laughs at it all.
• Stalker Without A Crush: Once Moguro finds a customer, he'll stalk them to learn more about them, follow them until they acknowledge him, and/or catch them in the act of breaking their promise.
• Strictly Formula: Moguro meets some poor schmuck, gives them a magical gift to deal with a big problem in their lives, along with a warning not to overuse it or something else they're not allowed to do until the gift's use pays off. Things go great for a while, then the client either gets a big head and thinks they don't need to listen to that creepy old guy's warning, or they're somehow pressured into breaking the condition Moguro set for them. Enter Moguro, who hits them with the DON finger. Last scene, the client's life is in ruins, if they're not flat-out dead or insane. The Laughing Salesman walks off down the street to find his next victim, reflecting on the lesson to be learned from this person's tragedy, and going out on his signature Evil Laugh.
• Villain Protagonist: It’s Moguro, of course! The titular Laughing Salesman.

==================================

I want to apologize if this is way too long, but I'd like to understand and hear what you people have to say about all of these possible candidates!

Thank you!

Yeah I'm not reading all of that.

You should really bring up examples one at a time, not just an enormous wall of text about many different works.

Also, Goosebumps shouldnt really have a "general" entry since the books are only loosely connected and can be read in essentially any order.

I would have done that, but I didn't think anyone would appreciate me flooding this forum with posts by me in short succession.

A Wall of Text isn't much better.

Besides, you don't need permission to add an entry. If someone later thinks an entry you, or anyone else, made is questionable they can bring it here.

I see.

Well, not to beat around the bush, but my intention was to know what others think of some particular works in question so that the TBSC trope isn't misused as a form of precaution.

Alright... I have been waiting a long time to present this so, here we go:

From Blasphemous's YMMV page:

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: Cvstodia was a brutal theocracy even before the Miracle and has only become worse. Most of the population has been transformed into horrible monsters, and genuinely good and helpful people are few and far between. Despite the immense suffering the Miracle has visited on Cvstodia, no one besides the Penitent One is in any hurry to end it, and those who are in any position to stop it instead exalt in it as the ultimate expression of their faith. Neither ending brings a permanent end to the Miracle, with even the “good” ending having Crisanta seemingly undo your sacrifice and start the cycle again, meaning Cvstodia will continue to suffer regardless of the player’s actions. Luckily, Wounds of Eventide added a third Golden Ending that allows the player to free Cvstodia from the influence of the Miracle and the High Wills, and Blasphemous II's Ending A allows The Penitent One to receive a happy ending as well.

Now, I have always venomously disagreed with this example since the game's first release way back in 2019. However back then I begrudgingly tolerated the example despite personally liking the the game and it getting mostly positive reviews right out of the gate do to the game's extreme bleakness and initial lack happy or even Bittersweet Ending(s). However, in the years since the game has gotten several huge updates that added extra content such as new areas, bosses, the chance to Earn Your Happy Ending, a high quality animated trailer for one of the aforementioned updates with views in the hundreds of thousands and finally a sequel that from what I know also has gotten positive reviews. Plus YMMV tropes cannot be played with as whoever wrote the example should have been aware of. I am confident to say that the game is far to successful and well regarded for Too Bleak, Stopped Caring to apply.

I would like your approvals to cut the example please.

Edited by TBJack on Oct 21st 2023 at 10:55:35 AM

Not too familiar with it, but from your description it sounds like the game is too popular to be TBSC.

Yeah that's a cut. People dont seem to understand that "this work is too dark for me, personally" is not what TBSC is for.

Just listing the bad things that happen in a work's plot isnt enough.

Edited by ArthurEld on Oct 31st 2023 at 7:32:53 AM

That reminds me, is anything from the entries on Diary of a Wimpy Kid salvageable? The series has been accused by older readers of cynicism sometimes but IDK if its target audience is any turned away by it.

• Too Bleak, Stopped Caring:
  • While it's a stretch to call it outright bleakness, the sheer amount of unlikable characters and excessive stupidity from everyone can really be a bother when trying to find something to root for and keep going, especially due to severe Aesop Amnesia and total lack of character development to preserve Status Quo Is God. Despite being sold as realistic fiction, the story is set in a cynical world of incompetence where bad things happen to good people, although this world is interpreted from Greg's obvious Protagonist-Centered Morality. It worsens in later books when most of humor revolves around the Heffleys having bad luck. The movies, however, attempt to fix this by giving the characters better personalities and lessening some of the stupid moments, even having Greg and Rodrick reconcile after their biggest schism in the Rodrick Rules movie, as they now treat each other much better. It even carries over into Dog Days, where Greg is horrified at thinking Rodrick was being loaded into a garbage truck, and upon seeing his brother is okay, hugging him tightly, to which Rodrick is obviously touched.
  • The five biggest offenders are:
    • The ending of Cabin Fever, wherein Manny's Jerkass tendencies are taken up to eleven as he cuts off the power to the house in the middle of a blizzard with the exception of his own room, leaving the rest of his family to die and yet he still doesn't get punished.
    • Hard Luck focuses on everyone being a jerk to each other and takes the books' cynicism up to eleven. Events include the teachers starting the Hero Points program to bribe kids into being nice (which leads to doctored points), Abigail using Rowley to make her ex jealous and dumping him without a word, Susan's family nearly tearing themselves apart because of a ring, and despite feeling a bit bad for Rowley, Greg learning nothing from all of this.
    • The entirety of The Long Haul. The book's plot is mostly a series of misfortune events caused entirely by the family being completely idiotic or some form of Ass Pull. The film version is even worse and is one of the reasons why fans disown the movie, besides the changed cast of course, given that the first three movies notably made the stories less of a hassle to sit through.
    • The entirety of The Getaway, for many of the same reasons as The Long Haul. Yet another series of unfortunate things happening to the family who just want to relax, with most of their misfortunes either being caused by their own idiocy or just bad luck.
    • The last two pages of Wrecking Ball end up ruining the Heffleys' chance of having a new home after all the trouble they went through. Just when things were finally looking up for them, they just had to get messed up again. It's telling that the next book The Deep End finally gives them a Vacation Episode that ends well, though they suffer mightily to get there.

I feel like the fact that the entry starts with "While it's a stretch to call it outright bleakness" is an indication that it's misuse.

Plus if we're going by the idea that massively popular things usually don't count unless the audience starts to turn away, I think the popularity of the books disqualifies them from Too Bleak, Stopped Caring.

I say cut. That is not only misuse but also an obnoxious wall of text.

So I realized that about two month ago, someone added the trope to The Cleveland Show. Here's the example:

• Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: Aside from having an Audience-Alienating Premise, the Browns themselves make it even harder to stay invested in the show. Cleveland takes a level in jerkass compared to Family Guy. Donna is a Designated Hero at best who emotionally and physically abuses her husband and children on a regular basis. Junior is a delusional psycho who possibly murdered his Family Guy counterpart. Rallo is an Enfant Terrible who regularly manipulates and uses Junior on a daily basis. While Roberta can be seen as more sympathetic than the rest of the family, she fluctuates in level of Jerkass behavior. The rest of the cast is also either too stupid, too boring, or too malicious to proberly root for as well.

Aside from the fact that it's primarily a comedy show and that there are other animated comedy shows that can have unlikable characters that are also on the page, like Brickleberry and Metalocalypse, the show had four seasons so it was mostly popular and I've never heard about any backlash that would validate the trope.

We've got to do something about people misusing this trope. I won't get much into it, but someone also added Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice despite the fact that it made nearly three times its budget.

A number of misused Too Bleak, Stopped Caring entries are usually suitable for Angst Aversion or Audience-Alienating Premise, but if it's popular and no one dropped off from the show because of its cynicism then I'd say cut it entirely.

I found this in the page for Baki the Grappler:

Yujiro's constant Karma Houdini-ness after all of his cruelty ended up having this effect on quite a few fans, to the point where it actually turned them off from the series altogether. However seeing Musashi make Yujiro bleed was like someone turning on the lights after spending days in the dark.

While I know that being an Invincible Villain is a good way for your series to fall under TBSC, I feel that Baki is too successful of a franchise to count. Cut?

No. Don't cut it.

Come to think of it, all of the soul-crushingly dark and cynical works that are way far too depressing and mean-spirited, regardless of popularity, deserve the TBSC status, like Game Of Thrones (not that it was ever a good franchise to begin with)!

Edited by P360360P on Nov 6th 2023 at 6:11:43 AM

...thank you for aptly demonstrating the problem with this trope and its frequent misuse due to troper bias.

even if its valid, that example is poorly written as the last sentence basically contradicts it.

Agreed, the last part could be retooled into Win Back the Crowd if given proper context (and being a distinctly held fandom opinion), but from what I can see off searching the involved characters' names, the franchise seems to be doing pretty well for the niche it covers. I'd say cut it.

From Wheel of Time's YMMV page:

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: As Rand descended into insanity, it became increasingly hard to root for him. The people who tried to manipulate him into turning out for the better, however, were not much better on their own. This gets better in the last 3 books, first for the latter, then for the former.

While the villains are often irredeemable monsters, it can be hard to find enjoyment in seeing them get comeuppance as (especially for female villains) it often comes in the form of a Fate Worse than Death, with them typically getting enslaved, tortured, raped and/or Mind Raped.

Yeah, even as someone with barely any knowledge of Wo T, I know that this series is far to popular and well regarded to qualify for this trope. To quote Wikipidia: As of 2021, the series has sold over 90 million copies worldwide, making it one of the best-selling epic fantasy series since The Lord of the Rings. Its popularity has spawned a collectible card game, a video game, a roleplaying game, and a soundtrack album. A TV series adaptation produced by Sony Pictures and Amazon Studios premiered in 2021. Plus, and I am getting tired of writing this, YMMV tropes cannot be played with as everyone here should be aware of by now. I say that this is an easy cut. Thoughts?

Yeah, cut. It's also one of those very obvious things where we're not exactly supposed to "root for" Rand as his insanity worsens.

We're not supposed to root for Frodo when he gives in to the ring, either. We're not supposed to root for Anakin when he chops up a bunch of little kids (or the second time he chops up a bunch of little kids). Sometimes, protagonists do bad stuff.

Too many TBSC entries are just "and then a bunch of bad stuff happened." Without explaining that audiences were turned off by the lack of real stakes.

YMMV.Remembrance Of Earths Past

• Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: The series starts off dark and does nothing but get darker and darker. Even if we look past its sci-fi veneer, the story still paints a bleak real-life analogy regarding how larger organizations/political entities constantly interfere with the growth or outright destroy 'the lesser' at any level and by any means possible simply to ensure their own survival, forcing the little people into isolation and leading to even more Cycle of Hurting for everyone involved.

Am I right in this is misuse as it fails to show how audiences were turned off by the bleakness?