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Feel free to add those suggestions, I like them, personally.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 21st 2019 at 9:43:33 AM

We need to put Square Peg Round Trope in the Administrivia namespace, which I brought up here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=79411&type=att.

As for the ZCE sandbox, we need this:

However, elaborating on examples is not always a good idea. If a zero context example is the way it is because expanding on it would violate a wiki rule (i.e. Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement, No Lewdness, No Prudishness, etc.), then it should either be deleted or written in a way that is neutral and Family Friendly. Just because we have those rules does not mean you should use them to justify writing such examples ("This trope occurs here, but let's leave it at that).

Aye, good point.

My opinion is that conflicts with the ROCEJ only matters when it comes to real life while lewd examples should only be problematic if they are from works that violate the content policy. I would assume most other works of fiction have been cleared for inclusion here, so talking about them does not warrant action.

I mean, examples from those sort of works are technically allowed as long as the examples are tasteful and nothing is linked, right? Might at least be worth noting that it's important to keep these rules in mind, that if the context would create rule violations the examples are better off gone.

Anyway, should we hash out some of those examples?

Well, here are some generic examples as practiced, using Sweet Baker:

• Sweet Baker
• Sweet Baker: Alice, full stop.
• Sweet Baker: Alice, from the episode "Troperville Bakery" is this.
• Sweet Baker: Alice is nice, sweet, and bakes.
• Sweet Baker: Alice is an amazing baker, winning school-contest after school-contest with her delicious cookies.
• Sweet Baker: Bob once took a baking class, where he met his current best-friend Alice, who can be considered this trope. They returned to this class in episode 8, where they had to guest-teach a class for their old teacher, who ended up in the hospital.
• Sweet Baker: Alice, as shown in this clip.
• Sweet Baker: Alice; see Hair of Gold, Heart of Gold above.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 2:21:53 PM

Those examples go right under each example of how ZCEs manifest, right?

• Variation of adjective list:
  • Sweet Baker: Alice.
  • Sweet Baker: Alice, who has many Heartwarming Moments.
• Variation of trope name alone and "trope: see other trope"
  • Sweet Baker: Alice is a combination of this and Supreme Chef.

Yeah. Or a new "examples" section.

These examples look good.

So, I tried adding the examples to the sandbox. I'm not sure if it looks good this way.

Hmm, that's why I was thinking of having it separate. Like "here's how they manifest" - "here's how they may appear on a page".

Or, rely solely on the examples and explanations to get the point across.

Could you edit the page to show me what that would look like? I was thinking that if we have examples on there, it would be best to have them right next to the explanations so that readers would more easily associate the description of the ZCE types with what they look like.

I can try, but I'm on mobile, so it might be a bit tricky...

Well, you don't HAVE to do it right now, if you'd rather wait until you can use a physical keyboard.

That may be a few days... :(

But if I just comment-out the initial rule part and make the examples first-bullet, maybe it'll work.

Well, looks better to me. More concise and just as good at conveying information.

I'd like to add a type of ZCE that regards the ROCEJ and NLNP rules. It goes like this:

• Political Correctness Gone Mad / Living Aphrodisiac: Alice has these moments, but that's all we'll say about it.
  While we expect tropers to abide by No Lewdness, No Prudishness and Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement, this still does not explain the example. When adding context, either write it in a non-compromising way, or if that fails, delete the example.

Edited by FridgeGuy2016 on Aug 24th 2019 at 8:27:50 AM

Could work, but let's remove the slash. That's bad formatting and we don't need to muddle the message by implying that is okay. One trope would work. It'd be better if we could tie it into Sweet Baker for consistency, though...

or we could replace the Sweet Baker examples with a trope that lends itself better to ROCEJ caution. given that they're ZCEs, it shouldn't take much rewriting.

True. I mostly chose Sweet Baker because it's newer (and thus could use some love) and has a duel criteria as necessary for the partial-context version.

Anyway though, do you think it looks better now (just the examples and tips)?

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 24th 2019 at 11:43:40 AM

i do; you've done a fantastic job as usual. one thing i might suggest as an addition to See Also:

• Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment: For some tropes, there is such a thing as too much context. Examples should be as unbiased as possible, and should also avoid going into too much detail about risqué subjects.

Looks good to me, and thanks, though as of now the "type explanation" parts have been hidden rather than removed for the sake of the test.

So yeah, what trope would cover the ROCEJ point but is also a character trope with more than one criteria and isn't misused to the point of causing potential conflict over the meaning of the trope itself?

We need clarity, consistency, and to not bend the meaning of a trope to fit our purposes.

Abusive Parents or similar might work...

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 25th 2019 at 7:50:56 AM

Corrupt Politician would probably work pretty well.