Brain-Machine Interface Technology (Neuralink, BrainGate)

Synchron is VC-funded just like Neuralink. In fact, it’s actually partially owned by Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates, who are both main investors.

Neuralink just published an interview with its first human patient. He's a 29-year old quadriplegic who was paralyzed in a diving accident. In the video, he describes the process of learning how to train his mind to use a computer, letting him play chess, but also Civilization VI.

The implant has to charge after long periods of use, so obviously there are incremental technical improvements needed. He also says it's "not perfect", but doesn't go into detail. He was discharged from the hospital the day after the procedure and describes no cognitive side-effects.

Edited to add the official video, since it was somehow published after people started talking about it.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2024 at 11:05:23 AM

So you’re saying this technology can give me faster reaction times at games? In seriousness I’m glad to to hear that things seem to be going well. Do we know how long the charge lasts for the implant?

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Mar 21st 2024 at 8:11:36 AM

That's a future application. The only specific information in the video is that he played Civilization VI for eight hours straight and had to take a break to recharge the implant. (Been there, done that, except for the implant part.) Other than that we have no details.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 21st 2024 at 10:17:30 AM

Thinking about it a little more, the quicker response time aspect is interesting just in general. Do you know if specific fields have shown interest in this technology for that purpose? I imagine some must have.

In other news, Musk is saying that Neuralink’s project “Blindsight” - created to restore vision - has successfully given blind monkeys their sight. [https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-blindsight-computer-chip-b2516427.html]

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Mar 21st 2024 at 10:34:54 AM

It's only Musk saying it so I cast doubt. You could build a bridge out of the amount of lies and tall tales he's spun.

Yeah, do we have a reputable source?

You don't necessarily need an implant to control a computer with your mind. Electrodes glued to your head work just as well. I speak from experience, I saw a neurologist several times as a kid, one of the tests was a simple computer game - it required some concentration tho.

Why go thru an expensive and dangerous surgery when you could have a more practical 'thinking cap' engineered?

I'll hold my breath until this chip helps people to walk again (and it's confirmed by outside sources and not Musk himself)

Not gonna lie I hope as this tech advances they make SQUI Ds (from Strange Days) or braindances from Cyberpunk.

I thought we were better than Hitler Ate Sugar fallacies on these forums.

We already know that restoring vision is one of the goals of Neuralink, and obviously they would have to conduct animal trials before being approved to attempt it with humans. So there's nothing abnormal or weird about progression along the roadmap.

If Musk said that they were training monkeys to drive cars on Mars, skepticism might be warranted, but not because of who he is. Not just because, anyway.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 22nd 2024 at 3:37:19 PM

I don't. I, uh, do not think it's a good idea to try and literally experience what someone else goes through, especially since memories aren't really discrete like that. It'd be an amazing way to just insert a fully false memory that the subject wouldn't be able to tell apart from their original memories because...we can kinda do that now and humans aren't capable of telling the difference between a real and fake memory.

And yes, it's fully possible to talk someone into spontaneously generating a fake memory. It's part of the reason the Satanic Panic did so much damage because well meaning but dumb as hell investigators induced children to create extremely traumatizing memories of events that never happened. And you can't undo a false memory generation. Memory regression has a really bad habit of doing the same thing.

Edited by Zendervai on Mar 22nd 2024 at 4:06:23 AM

Musk has a known habit of exaggerating and occasionally lying about his companies' accomplishments. I'll wait for other sources, thank you very much.

Musk is a notorious liar whose lied multiple times about the quality, standards and results of his product. Anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt given the long, long list of lies, broken promises and demonstrably false advertising he engaged in.

This is the same man who said “oh no we aren’t killing monkeys at an accelerated rate and also all the monkeys were killed were terminally ill anyway” in response to Neuralink killing an excessive amount of monkeys due to botched experiments because researchers were rushing to meet Elon Musk’s demands for a specific deadline.

Yeah. Doesn't matter what you think of the man, him lying about shit like this is a well-established pattern of behavior by this point, and should by all rights thoroughly dissuade anyone from just uncritically taking his word for it. That's just common sense.

Edited by Chortleous on Mar 22nd 2024 at 4:49:49 AM

At the very least, taking what he says at complete face value and not building in space for exaggeration or hype is pretty silly.

Like let's unpack this for one second. Musk is claiming that he/Neuralink have cured blindness. Not just once but multiple times with multiple monkeys, with no death or serious injury to the monkeys. He says the resolution isn't great (compares it to NES graphics) but will eventually become even better than what a normal eye can see. All of these are things Musk himself claimed, and most importantly things only Musk has claimed.

Let's handle things in reverse. First off,

• the claim that his new chips may exceed human capability. That's already a tall order and how would you even quantify such a thing at this point. I'm not even sure how you could objectively measure that but we're so far away from that point it's not worth lingering on.
• Next is the no death or serious injuries to the monkeys. To re-iterate a point that has been made many times here and confused by some people, Neuralink has been under fire because they've been killing monkeys at a rate far higher than any of their competitors, which has been tied to Elon Musk setting unrealistic deadlines to try and keep the company relevant with it's competitors and resulted in a lot of wasted tests as researchers had to cut corners to try and meet deadlines only for the results to be botched and more monkeys used and killed than required. Animal deaths in testing is an unavoidable part of the process, but claiming at such an early state that absolutely no monkey was killed in what would be a revolutionary leap is ludicrous.
• Finally, the claim that he's cured blindness in monkeys. I'm not an expert but nobody has been able to use microchips to cure blindness yet. There have been microchips used in humans to help them recognize shapes but that wasn't restoring sight but rather creating electrical signals the person could learn to interpret. And out of the blue Musk is claiming that Neuralink has managed to leapfrog every other competitor in the field who were previously making much better progress than Neuralink to make this revolutionary breakthrough, and he did it on a Twitter post and not a press conference or a scientific paper or anything like that.

Even without Musk's long history of lies, overpromises and hype and unrealistic deadlines, all of these things would be dubious just given Neuralink's past controversies.

I'm pretty sure Hitler Ate Sugar covers an attempt to tar something mundane by linking it correlationally with a reviled figure, not maintaining skepticism of a scientific claim being made unsupported by a company's major stakeholder on Twitter (especially when said stakeholder has a history of exaggerating or outright fabricating the capabilities of his companies' products).

Especially since if Neuralink was somehow leapfrogging people in ways like this, you’d think they’d like…show it. Like at all. Because “we managed this and we can prove it” is way more effective on the PR front than one guy going “we totally managed this, trust me! I’m the one who said the cybertruck would be a functional boat and that an underground tunnel system in New Orleans was a good idea!”

Could they have made some progress? Sure. Do I buy that they somehow managed to completely leapfrog the entire competition like this? Fuck no, without anything concrete to back it up, it’s unbelievable.

Time will tell.

Neuralink: PRIME Study Progress Update — User Experience

The first participant in Neuralink's PRIME study has now had the implant for over 100 days. This blog provides updates on how well he is adapting to it.

• He participates in research sessions for up to 8 hours per day on weekdays and uses the implant for recreation for over 10 hours per day on the weekends.
• He's able to competitively play online games.
• In a measure of "bits per second", which assesses the speed and precision with which someone can use a mouse cursor, he is able to reach 8.0 BPS, measured against a typical human input speed of 10 BPS in similar tests. This includes both right and left clicks.
• Some threads "retracted from the brain" post-surgery, resulting in a decrease in accuracy. Software updates were able to adjust for the issue. (As a reminder, the 'threads' of a Neuralink implant are too small to cause bleeding, so no harm is done if they fail to implant properly.)

They will continue to improve cursor control performance and extend functionality to text entry. Future applications will allow control of robotic arms, wheelchairs, and related technologies.

So basically the practical application is this could be used for the paralyzed to have better quality of life by letting them communicate with devices using their mind? Do I have that right?

That's the main idea, yeah. It might also someday allow them to interface with more complex prosthetics.

As long as it doesn’t become the next iPhone, the must have accessory. I don’t like the idea of people getting it as a status symbol or for fun.

I don't particularly relish the idea of having to commit to brain surgery just to be able to keep up with society either, but it's probably not going to be up to us.

I mean I think about it realistically, and it doesn’t seem like it’s gonna be something everyone can afford unless their insurance is gonna cover it.

Do you put your Samsung Galaxy on your insurance? No. You do not.

Edited by BigBadShadow25 on May 18th 2024 at 5:37:04 AM