Shazam!

Is BOP still considered good? Because I'm still recalling the folks complaining how it butchered Cassandra Cain and remembering how Cass was going to be way more comics-accurate but got vetoed from that by execs has me concerned. (As for BOP's financial unsuccessfulness, it also probably didn't help that its competition was the first Sonic the Hedgehog movie.)

BOP is only popular with a certain crowd. It's a terrible movie.

... that seems bass-ackwards. I don't think BOP is for me, but it does have a higher Metacritic than fucking Joker and a good Rotten Tomatoes despite the fact that it's absolutely very unpopular with a certain type of crowd.

It absolutely had a huge knee-jerk reaction from people who didn't care for the concept but that noticeably softened over time, though I would be curious as to whether TSS has improved or hurt peoples' thoughts on it.

Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 23rd 2023 at 11:00:12 AM

I think the main complaint was that the movie should've just been called "Harley Quinn" and then they should've spun it off INTO a proper Birds of Prey movie. That, and yeah, Cassandra Cain being In Name Only.

Yeah, basically. I may despise what that movie did to Cassandra, but I can't rightly call it a bad movie. It's a movie that knows what it wants to be and does a very good job of accomplishing that vision, and I can't think of much about it that's bad from a movie point of view rather than a adaptation point of view.

"BOP is considered pretty good" and "BOP's portrayal of Cass is bad" are not mutually exclusive statements, either.

Birds of Prey is absolutely fun and I love it all across its action scenes to its many interacting arcs and visual design. I definitely want to see more movies like it.

Re: Shazam: The Wrath of the Gods.

Well...

There's no legal reason they can't refer to character inside the book/movie/whatever "Captain Marvel", they own the character and the name. They just can't sell it as Captain Marvel. They just can't title the movie itself "Captain Marvel". eta: afaik they just changed the character name to shazam for simplicity's sake and to avoid I Am Not Shazam .

Edited by dcutter2 on Mar 23rd 2023 at 4:19:12 PM

...How is that trope not renamed yet? I guess the marching on of Trope repair goes really slowly...

Merch is usually the problem with Names The Same. Trademarks give exclusive rights within a product class, so who gets to sell Captain Marvel(TM) action figures?

I mean DC had the name first. They could have took it legally from Marvel.

Sadly DC was notorious in its mishandling of Shazam, allowing Marvel to take the name

Sounds like a running theme with DC having the advantage, but letting Marvel take the lead.

I just want to chime in and add that Birds of Prey is fun as hell, faithfulness or lack thereof be damned. I may have overrated it a little initially, but it's because it was just to refreshing to see actual SETS and FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY after a string of MCU and Snyder and Snyder-adjacent flicks.

In ways of how DC screwed the character, there was the attempted darker and edgier reboot by Roy Thomas

Roy Thomas was given the opportunity to reboot Shazam to his vision, his dream role because he's a huge fan of the character. Only for DC to basically fuck him over, preventing it from being published, constantly asking for rewrites, and eventually cancelling it altogether. Meaning Thomas wasted years trying to get this book off the ground especially since he was prevented from writing other character's he wanted to write about like Dr. Fate.

Thomas was so furious he left DC shortly after.

Also I just found out what Alan Moore's plan for Billy Batson was in his fabled Twilight of the Superheroes story. Gonna spoiler this cause its pretty gross but its 'not good at all.

For one he would have Billy and Mary married... with a kid. Keep in mind they are still siblings.

Also he would have wrote that Billy constantly transforming from child to adult would fry his libido and leave him with the sex drive as an adult even as a kid. Which he deals with by going to brothels and engaging in BDSM sex cause "deconstruction"

This would then lead to his death as Martian Manhunter would disguise himself as a call girl, and then during some bondage sex he would strangle Billy to death in his human form and take his place while Billy's death wouldn't be investigated cause the patrons thought he was a dwarf.

........ Yeah.

Sometimes Alan Moore is a weirdo

Most times actually but not usually like this but then again Lost Girls exists

he's only a genius when he has good ideas

Honestly, I'm still not over Harry Potter.

In other words, I understand that there are things like deconstructions and parodies, but Harry Potter felt like the classic conservative father, who complains that the Harry Potter books are satanic.

Moore is another side of the coin to Garth Ennies

Sure Moore is a better writer but he can be just as disgustingly edgy as Ennies can be

Imo, Moore is at his worst when he's deconstructing stuff sexually rather than... literally any other way.

It's one of the few things I dislike overall about League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the earlier days of the series, I mean, which are otherwise almost uniformly excellent).

Remember even Alan Moore regrets how he handled Barbara in the Killing Joke.

Just saw it. pretty fun actually

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Mar 24th 2023 at 2:00:18 PM

Also, as I recall, Alan Moore regretted that his comics popularized the '90s Antiheroes trope, so even Alan Moore has standards.

Its a shame that Dc is just abandoning their current movies in favor of James Gunn's reboot without at least letting them speak for themselves, because in spite of the mixed reviews, I liked Shazam: Fury of the Gods a lot. It was very funny, and I loved the opening scene with Billy and the Pediatrician and how he vents about his home life like the pediatrition is a psychologist.

Also found Billy'scrush on Wonder Woman to be very adorable, and her basically resurrecting him at the end was a nice call back to his Dream date with her. And the Wizard taking her face was both unexpected, but fucking funny as hell, too. XD. Also, has there been any evidence in the actual comics of Shazam having a crush on Wonder Woman? Becauses thats a nice homage to them if he does.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Mar 24th 2023 at 3:16:37 PM

See, now that's fun movie connection, DC!