Hate Sink cleanup

@Austin Oh I do plan on doing Cinder EVENTUALLY. I just figured it would be better not to Propose another CM immediately after Isaihah.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 7th 2019 at 1:55:03 AM

Alright. On Eyeball, I'll read that later. Kind of leaning towards a "yes" there.

Got it.

Not sure on Eyeball. She has quite a fair share of funny moments. Most of her screentime is her being a Laughably Evil buffon, even when she tries to kill Steven there is a sufficient amount of humor around her.

I addressed this in the EP. Her bufoonery just made what she tried to do hit even harder. And I don't really recall any jokes being made about what she tries to do or her attitude about it Sans the comical way they were running in circles in the Bubble. And even then that stuff isn't what the show or narrative puts focus on.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 7th 2019 at 2:08:09 AM

To be more honest...I would think that Aquamarine would be more close to being HS than Eyeball. Unlike most of the Gems, she doesn't have any tragedy to her, and she isn't given much humanizing traits, something that even the Diamonds can attest to. Sure, she has a moment where she decides to pretend that the ordeal between her and Topaz didn't happen, but that was shortly before threatening to report her for her revolting. That's not even getting into treating her like crap.

I suppose(Though aqua was already listed last I checked) however, I still think Eyeball is hatebale in a Differant way then Aquamarine.

I mean...yeah, I could see that, but when I compare the two, Aquamarine is worse.

If we're judging this in terms of a "Heinous Standard" Akin to the CM clenaup. I think the point of Eyeball being hatebale in a Differant way then Aquamarine still stands. As on the CM cleanup we have made several candidates based not on body count or Scope but rather that what they do is particularly Screwed up. Like comparing Most of the Bioshock C Ms to Frank Fontaine

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 7th 2019 at 2:49:39 AM

@Kylo: My point still stands though. There are mitigating factors. Eyeball's attempted murder of Steven is the only time she is played as a straight HS, whereas the other 95% or so time she is Laughably Evil and even then the tone of it isn't played super serious (like you said the comical way they wrmere running).

If she was intended to be a HS she would be written that way the whole time. It would be like calling pre-Heel Face Turn Peridot a HS.

That is true. The only time when Eyeball is actually a HS is with her attempted murder of Steven. All the other instances of this is when she was being played as too much of a buffoon. Nothing that is actively portrayed as being hateful.

That attempt still has Story Significance Aesop Wise. As it is meant to display how Kindness won't always help you with some people.

And that wasn't all she did, she later pulled a Never My Fault in the Trial arc trying to get steven executed.

Someone added Syndrome back to HateSink.Animated Films, despite his being removed I think four time prior.

He was cut since unlike the movies other Hate Sink, he's got a Freudian Excuse, humor, and style. He falls short of the Hate Sink standard set by the work. Thoughts on him?

Thoughts on Hate Sinks needing a lack of fun/redeeming traits standard?

Uhh...I could KIND of get cutting him for his Style. He was pretty entertaining and Intelligent foe ...but the Narrative still puts most of the focus on him being a Phycopathic Manchild and a sadistic Narcissist who became a vicious Supervillain for the Pettiest reason imaginable.

Freudian Excuse? Okay yeah I guess Mr.Incredible was being a little Harsh. And in his slight defense there was no way of knowing that bomb was stuck to his cape....but.....

If anyone says that all that makes what he does understandable in the SLIGHTEST. There insane.

And also, a Hate Sink can have some Evil Is Cool or Funny traits as long as the Narrative still puts the overall focus on there loathable traits.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 7th 2019 at 8:22:21 AM

Pffft...Freudian Excuse? Syndrome was a conceited brat who got snubbed because Mr. Incredible turned him down. He had every right to.

Idk. Syndrome's FE is kind of weak, especially since he's attempting genocide to what amounts to a bruised ego. While he is a bit comedic it mainly stems from his childishness and doesn't really make him very endearing.

With that...sounds more like a case where several audience members liked him rather than actually hating him as intended. Take Mr. Incredible's boss for instance. He fits more under HS IMO.

Agreed. Hugh is the better example.

This isn't about Syndrome being hated, it's how can he be intended (author intent is the key part) as a Hate Sink if he has more endearing (not necessarily sympathetic, but fun to watch) traits than other characters in the setting?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 7th 2019 at 11:09:05 AM

Syndrome balances his despicableness with comedy. He's a Large Ham who goes fanboyish over superheroes he once idolized and is deliberately over-the-top with presentation (cape, flight and giant robot). And he isn't openly horrible to his employees unlike Parr's boss. While his Freudian Excuse is weak, the film makes it clear that Mr. Incredible does feel guilt for being responsible for Syndrome's Start of Darkness. And in all fairness, his brief career as Incrediboy was well-intentioned (if a bit self-centered) on his part even if it did annoy Mr. Incredible back then.

We should remember that a character like the Joker isn't a Hate Sink character because he's Laughably Evil and the seriousness of his crimes are balanced out by the absurd Black Comedy laced within. He only qualifies as a Hate Sink character if the abusive monster is all that's shown in the story and his brand of comedy is nowhere to be seen.

Hm, when I think about it...I guess Syndrome can stay off.

Speaking of Laughably Evil. I'm curious about one Villain from Punisher:MAX. Barricuda, from what I've researched his actions are Monsterous but he also has a Laughably Evil charm and a Troubled past Wich, while not justifying anything(he's a CM for a reason) Helps explain how he got this way. And he apparently got his own spin off series.

And of Course hes in the same Work as Rawlings and Nicky Cavella. Who lack all that.

There have been a bunch of characters that have been listed that I have been unsure about. I will start with the Eustache from "Courage the Cowardly Dog" example:

• While Eustace is occasionally portrayed as sympathetic, he is a stubborn, hateful old man who takes advantage of Muriel's kindness and mistreats Courage even when Courage puts his life on the line several times to save him. By far Eustace's worst episode was Ball of Revenge in which he rallies all of the villains that Courage had faced throughout the show's run to kill the dog because he was sleeping on a blanket that belonged to him.

As far as I know Hate Sinks aren't "occasionally" sympathetic. Even if they are given a Freudian Excuse, nothing directly makes them sympathetic, amd while I do admit Eustace can be quite loathsome he has moments of vulnerability that are very much mitigating.

Eustache is an example of Depending on the Writer, and this tends to complicate things. Sometimes he has sympathetic moments (if I recall). Sometimes he's an Asshole Victim who gets what's coming for him. This is something common with shows that have Negative Continuity. Though I will say that Eustache seems to be designated Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist by default.

Edited by Shadao on Mar 8th 2019 at 10:54:39 AM

Definitely agreed that it is heavily Depending on the Writer.

Edited by AustinDR on Mar 9th 2019 at 7:51:28 AM

From Hate Sink: "According to writers and the creator himself, Mr. Krabs (of Spongebob Squarepants) is supposed to look as bad (if not worse) than Plankton himself. It's just the matter of letting him get away with it that they and the audience seem split over."

This contradicts the other tropes associated with him like Designated Hero and The Scrappy. Also, if he qualifies as a Hate Sink according to this example, Plankton should be considered a Hate Sink as well. Is Mr. Krabs an example of Hate Sink?