Vampire: The Masquerade 5E

"they mostly seemed to exist for everyone else to shit on (even the writers!)"

Really because againi if there is any clan who shit on other and deserve a good beaten are the tremere.

" I'm already a bloodsucking fiend fighting other bloodsucking fiends, do we really need to add devil worship on top of that for horror? "

The baali is pretty much "vampire a spawn of satan" mofit and if charles is right then is a shane how they look like disposable mooks because they could be quite intersting.

"The Baali exist like the Nephandi (and to an extent, the Sabbat) as unambiguous monsters so the Kindred can kill them."

Which again is awfull because monstrosos as the be, the way sabbat looke the world are intersting in a sense, kinda like technocracy start as two dimensional villians.

They've more or less heavily implied the Sabbat is going to get a lot of its previous Noble Demon qualities removed and is going to be portrayed as more consistently Fully-Embraced Fiend Complete Monster types.

The Anarchs have picked up a lot of Sabbat defectors as well in 5E as the ones who don't like the new direction of the Sabbat but still hate the Camarilla have joined up. Given the Anarchs newer, more violent stance, it's a surprisingly okay fit for some.

But why do the Baali exist?

Well, two reasons:

1. Thematic

2. Practical

Thematically, the Baali as the Satanic vampires who perform dark rituals to demons, human sacrifices, and serve as combinations of 0 SAN Cthulhu Culists with occultist Satanism are perfectly in-genre. Given the Ministry are moving from being the "Dark God worshiping Stygians" to polytheistic Gnostics, that role is not quite as redundant as it used to be.

Remember, player characters aren't supposed to be Lestat or even Lost Boys' Michael for the most part. They're supposed to be Louis and the kid Michael turns in Lost Boys. The object of the game is to hold onto your humanity as long as possible even though that seems redundant to a lot of players who want to play vampires.

Overused as it may be, you're supposed to be trying to be the Friendly Neighborhood Vampire. You're just supposed to eventually fail.

The Baali as the guys to remind you why giving into your dark side is a bad thing serves a purpose. So does the Sabbat as showing what a pathetic horror show you have the potential to become.

Practically?

Practically, sometimes your player characters want to play a game and you don't have anything prepped so it's a good thing to have a bunch of babies kidnapped by an evil vampire who is going to sacrifice them to his worm god.

Clan Book: Baali and their argument, "Oh, no, we're sacrificing these babies to keep Cthulhu asleep!" Well, it never set right with me.

I was fourteen when I started to play the game and will state that, "An elder has hired an Arabic ninja to kill you" was an equally easy plot to play. Again, it doesn't take much prep work and is good for a session.

Fun fact:

• Satanic baby stealing Baali
• Assamite is coming to get you

Were both episodes of Kindred: The Embraced

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 26th 2018 at 1:12:30 AM

Another point is they've incentivized High Generation vampires.

12th and 13th generation vampires can feed off of animal blood as well as bagged blood indefinitely. So can Duskborn (Thin Bloods).

It gives a reason to take them if you want to be a Friendly Neighborhood Vampire.

Well... as long as you're not a Ventrue/vamp who picks up the Ventrue's clan weakness during character creation and you don't pick something that basically forces you into being a man-eater (I did that in DC by Night - I was a 13th gen Ventrue who could only eat on those who were guilty of something severe... while I generally got to feed with a relatively solid conscience overall, and DC is a pretty nice place to feed with such a restriction, it did mean that animals, with their lack of guilt, were verboten for me).

Okay, so I see that Hardestadt only had a minor Idiot Ball moment, combined with a pretty solid plan by Theo (although it sounds like the "getting away" part is a bit iffy).

Hrm... I guess I see Vitel holding on, but man, that's unliving on borrowed time. He feels ripe for a takedown.

As for "the clan that even the writers shit on," I meant the Giovanni. Nobody got less respect than them, and it didn't help that in many ways they were just the least interesting clan. The shakeups sound neat.

One of the developer interviews included a bit abou t the Council of Prague "massacre" (air quotes) where Theo actually expected it to be a Suicide Mission. He was a surprised as anyone that Hardestadt went down with one shot.

A lot of the Brujah Elders also joined in, which no one expected either. Either way it was a bloody battle that split the Camarilla.

(Tyler was there under her alias of Patricia Bollingbrook—which explains SOOOO much)

Cooperating with the Second Inquisition is either Refuge in Audacity or an Idiot Ball or full on Magnificent Bastard-rey.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 26th 2018 at 1:46:43 AM

I'd like to see some serious changes to the Sabbat.

Some of which would be unpopular.

Here's my list of how I'm going to do it in my games until we get a proper Sabbat book.

I'm open to suggestions.

The Loyalists all join the Anarchs or are Anarchs by default. They don't give a shit about the Sabbat structure anyway so they're basically diablerists who live free.

The Black Hand and the Tal'Mah'Re join formally into one enormous stable military/death cult that jettisons a lot of the weird but not all of it. They exist to serve the Antediluvians and/or eliminate them. They pick one and stick with it. They also hate all infernalists. If you join the Black Hand, you exist to be a professional adventurer stopping the end of the world while also being an enormous asshole. I'm inclined to go "Caine worship, kill the Antediluvians since they turned out to be assholes. However, we have actual plans on how to kill the Antediluvians. Not great ones but at least an idea."

House Goratrix is an ALLY of the Black Hand and recruits Tremere to save the world from Kupala and the Antediluvians, not because they're good guys because there won't be a world left to rule if they don't. Just to highlight HOW fucked up and bizarre the situation has gotten, House Goratrix is allied with the Salubri Antitribu who treat him like he's Saulot reborn. They're the knights of House Goratrix.

The Church of Caine becomes an independent sect headed by a Regent, Archbishops, Bishops, and so on ruling territory in their own right. A lot of these guys are ex-Sabbat Lasombra who take advantage of the Second Inquisition decapitating power structures and setting up new domains in the aftermath. Some will join the Camarilla, at least nominally, most won't bother.

The Sabbat proper, basically what's left over from the Gehenna War after this split, becomes completely corrupted by their diablerie in the Middle East. They are all insane, powerful, low generation crazies who may practice Satan worship as well as being indistinguishable from the Baali. More or less purely evil adventure fodder like Brother Vick from Bloodlines.

The Tzimisce Old Clan becomes an actual sizeable faction and an Independent clan as well as part of all this. They have Animalism, Blood Sorcery, and Protean. Vicissitude is a Ritual for Protean or an Amalgamation of Blood Sorcery and Protean.

Any suggestions?

At least Theo was realistic about the whole thing. Also, I do like that they do admit, in game terms, that it was a Fortitude botch on Hardestadt's part (also, probably a perfect roll on Theo's part, as it's possible to do all 8 health levels in one dragon's breath shotgun blast to take someone from full health to Final Death, but it literally requires all successes - though I suppose someone might have been in good position to finish Hardestadt off if he was just left at one or two health boxes left, which you'd need because I have to imagine that someone would put him out before the continual fire damage would do him in).

For Vitel's continued unlife... I mean, on one hand, he is millennia old and a fifth-gen Methuselah on top of that, and even if there are rules now capping just how many dots of various disciplines he can bring to bear without consequences (not too clear on those yet, but they are overall an interesting addition, particularly as it makes it seem less like you're completely screwed as a neonate), he is remarkably powerful and taking him on face-to-face would be a huge risk (and he's very experienced at acting from the shadows). On the other, I'm calling it now, they're going to kill him off sooner rather than later. I'll guess that the suggested path (so to speak) of an updated DC by Night will kill him off, with an official yet vague story about how it happened soon after.

For the Sabbat... I do think they work better as monstrous, but at the same time I like the idea that they're really invested in some sort of fucked up religious structure (like the old "old school Catholicism viewed under PCP" take). As much as random shovelheads made for a quick-and-easy game session (and in modern nights, that, as opposed to Baali or Assamite mooks, was my preferred "here's a quick session thrown together" idea, particularly since it raised fewer "wait a..." questions from players), I do like more the idea of a leaner sect that's more invested in their monstrous habits. That said, I'm hoping they evolve beyond their "stop the Antediluvians" line of belief for a few reasons. One, of course, is that they were comically more under the Antediluvians than anyone other than the Giovanni (and to be fair, they went in on the idea willingly, or at least way closer than the Sabbat did). Two, much of their plans under that goal made no sense (even on a "the Jyhad is fucked up" scale), and it more or less came off as only a hair less ridiculous than the "sacrifice a baby to keep Cthulhu asleep" brand of Baali (which, push comes to shove, were really "noble Sabbat" taken Up To Eleven). Three, even when you take the actual Antediluvians out of the picture, the Sabbat's goals more often resembled those of the Antediluvians than their supposed puppets in the Camarilla.

Damn those developer storytellers always fudging the dice rolls!

:)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 27th 2018 at 11:54:12 AM

Eh, I don't mind, so long as the fudging is still within reason (sure the odds of a botch on 5 Fortitude dice, combined with nailing all 8 successes on the damage roll for a shotgun loaded with dragon's breath, is low, it's at least still possible... I just think the odds are somewhere in the one-in-a-million range). Not only that, but since they're glossing things, it's within reason that Theo didn't one-shot Hardestadt, but someone else swung in (maybe burning some blood on Celerity and Protean 2) to finish the job within a single combat round (especially if Tyler was hanging out nearby - although she wouldn't have used Protean to finish things up, seeing as she lacks it).

It's when dice fudging runs straight into the impossible, that's when I object.

"The Tzimisce Old Clan becomes an actual sizeable faction and an Independent clan as well as part of all this. They have Animalism, Blood Sorcery, and Protean. Vicissitude is a Ritual for Protean or an Amalgamation of Blood Sorcery and Protean.

"

I find weird that consider Old tzimice(the carpatans is their name now?) are a bunch of old guys who stood there and the rest of the clan let them being for familiarity.

They are just dugeogon foldeer.

Eh, I take it more to the effect that the Old Clan Tzimice didn't even notice the Anarch Revolt and are partying like it's 1299.

Maybe they noticed the Mongols.

Maybe not

Maybe they noticed the Nazis then Soviet Union

Maybe not.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 27th 2018 at 4:49:40 AM

Started an LA by Night (web video) page.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/LAByNight

Anyone else watching this on Youtube or Twitch?

Which is why is weird as hell, the old tzmice are there still beliving they are dracula when is far of the truth, I dont see how they could be a player and what it would mean in the world stage.

Dracula talks about how he's forming new brides and coteries to deal with the supernatural.

So, literally, they could be one of his guys.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 29th 2018 at 3:22:08 AM

If you think about how the old clan Tzimisce are supposed to act (particularly their focus on particular manners), it actually makes a ton of sense. Any OCT that kept a relatively small demesne (and thus wasn't enforcing being a voivode on too large of a territory) and kept relatively distant from the Jyhad would thus not have been one of the elders that pissed off so much of the founders of the Anarch Revolt. Combine that with the OCT being fairly civil if approached properly (and honestly, while particular, it's not hard), and they'd be fairly low for the more politically oriented anarchs to go after. As for the ones who were in it for the diablerie, well, it was way easier to convince people to go after way softer targets than the guys hanging out in castles making vozhd as guard dogs.

Mind you, there probably shouldn't be many OCT running around in general, but that's mostly because the setup of the bloodline just doesn't sound like it's doing much Embracing in the first place. That said, if there was any medieval High Clan bloodline that should get out of the Anarch revolt relatively unscathed, it's the Old Clan Tzimisce.

I've always wanted to play a Tzimisce character who was a renowned plastic surgeon. Honestly Vicissitude might be one of my favorite disciplines, thematically, behind Dementation. Which they basically removed from 5E. Still mad about it.

Pretty much, vissitude is awsome and very creepy as hell, dementation is a close second.

That is my point, the old clan dosent do anything with the jihad and because they dont they are just sort of....there.

They've since stated that Vicissitude is going to be a Blood Sorcery/Protean combination power now.

Tzimisce will probably have Animalism, Blood Sorcery, and Protean.

And the changes to the Old Clan is they've become involved in the Jyhad.

Almost like they know something they are worried about is moving around...

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 30th 2018 at 12:56:51 PM

On the other hand, what they can really bring to the table that is diferent? is not like True brujah(what happen to those?) who are polar oposite of the Brujah, the old clan is....similar, just they dont practice vissimitude as far I know.

I suspect what they'll bring to the table will be, "Not Sabbat so you can play them in Camarilla and Anarch games."

Which is itself weird because the Old clan have trouble with dealing in modern nightt, they still act like mediavial times were they owned all the stuff around it.

I think you won't be playing the 1000 year old Vovoides but their newly embraced childer. It'll just be the newly embraced childer of 1000 year old Voivoides that educate them in a clan older than the dirt they carry around with them.

But we don't know I guess until they do the Sabbat book that isn't on any schedule yet.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 1st 2018 at 12:13:34 PM

Which is have to ask: is there going to be any edition to other supernatural? chicago by night mention werewolfs so....

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't release Werewolf 5E until they release Werewolf the Apocalypse: Earthblood.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/game/werewolf-the-apocalypse-earthblood/

2020

Huh, didn't know they changed developers.