The New Tens Cleanup Thread

Should this be closed, or should this be shifted to the Long Term Projects in case?

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There is still work to be done here, so don't close the thread. Ambivalent about whether this should stay here or get moved to Long Term; there are other Short Term Projects threads that are older and still around.

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Added entries from this post except for An Aesop, which I left out.

Edited by naturalironist on Oct 31st 2018 at 12:15:47 PM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Other possibly misused entries from the Trope List

• The '90s: 90's nostalgia is definitely a thing, but the trope is about the decade as a setting which the entry does not discuss. Could be retooled to be more like the entry for The '80s, if we can come up with some recent works set in the 90's
• Big, Fat Future: As a trope about depictions of the future, I'm not sure if this can happen in real life. And I don't think that this trope was common in older depictions of The New '10s
• Cassette Futurism: Definite misuse. This is a trope about future technology having a boxy 80's aesthetic, which is both not true currently and is another future trope that seems like would make real life examples impossible. Vinyl records being popular would be retraux, not this.
• Playing Both Sides: Troping Russian bots, seems potentially ROCEJ-violating and not really related to media.
• "Rashomon"-Style: I think we discussed this one before but it's still there. Somewhat neutrally-written, but it's troping media coverage of Russian interference and the Charlottesville thing, which seems like a ROCEJ problem.
• Sex Drugs And Rock N Roll: Very long entry discussing how the trope is Averted.
• Tokyo Rose: Troping Russian bots. Trope page only lists fictional examples.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

121 is okay; podcast makes sure that radio remains alive and kicking. The 80s and 90s trope page should merge into Nostalgia Filter. All other things should be cut or rewritten.

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Video game related tropes ought to be lumped as well.

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Sidethought: What would be the nickname for the 2010s?

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 12:26:24 AM

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I think that "The Twenty-Tens" would be a good nickname. It's alliterative and the convention could be used for naming future decades "The-Twenty-Twenties", "The Twenty-Thirties" and so on...

The Mountain King I wasn't saying that all works are so much more politicized. I was saying that an increasing amount of works from this decade are politicized. That's why I want to add that point under What Do You Mean, It's Not Didactic?. To everyone reading this, whatever your views are, whatever side you're on is there consensus that works released in this decade are containing either more socio-political messages or more overt socio-political messages?

Edited by ArtemisStyle on Nov 4th 2018 at 6:53:37 AM

Here's a couple of proposals:

• Bittersweet Ending: This has become the most common conclusion of works made during the decade, being preferred among other reasons, for allowing potential follow-ups to a story more than the old-fashioned "happy endings" or tragic conclusions.

• Downer Ending: Has seen a surge in prominence among works made since the middle of the decade, especially as many of the grittier productions of the era ended.

Edited by RAraya on Nov 8th 2018 at 7:26:42 AM

Do you think the Flat Design echoes that of 1920s Art Deco, and that the modern shitposts we have resemble Dada?

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Actually, the flat design and minimalist concepts common during most of the decade have a markedly 60s flavor as many other things, although the relatively recent "shitposting" trend could count as dadaist for some.

There's a point there on he flat design as a 60s thing, though I think some designs sort of have some elements of Art Deco, and perhaps some Cubism and Bauhaus.

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Someone recently posted the Gayngst trope and I feel it might be a bit ROCEJ and commented it out just for safe measure. It basically said: "With the Trump administration's hostility to LGBT rights, LGBT people have expressed anxiety and fear on social media over policy changes." Should I delete this or keep? Because some of the LGBT issues are already covered in the Useful Notes portion of this page.

It seems that it's been cut, so tap the one who edited it on this thread.

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Dark Paladin X That depends on what the issues are. If the point can be included the issues should be outlined, along with verified sources. There's so much Trump-bashing in media these days it can be hard to separate fact from fiction. Not to mention there needs to be a clear definition of the legislation; for example, trying to balance "LGBT rights vs religious rights" isn't discrimination against LGBT people.

Yeah, I'm actually considering re-adding this trope in, without the Trump bashing and putting it in a more neutral point of view. I'll comment it out before getting approval of it.

EDIT: I've readded the Gayngst (albeit in comments) and cut out the Trump bashing and putting this in a more neutral point of view and cited an example. I'm wondering if this is good enough or if this can be reworded in a more neutral point of view.

• Gayngst: Discrimination against LGBT individuals on basis of "religious freedom" has been a big issue in the United States, particularly the Supreme Court ruling of the Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission case where the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Christian baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple on the basis of freedom of religion.

Edited by DarkPaladinX on Nov 16th 2018 at 4:59:26 AM

I must disagree with the example, as I posted in the discussion page (didn't realize there was a thread here). The Supreme Court ruled against the Commission due to their failure to act neutrally. It very pointedly did not comment on the broader implications of the baker's religious rights versus the gay couple's rights, so it's not really significant to the example. Without the Cakeshop ruling, the example is general and a Zero Context Example.

Edit: Thinking about it, it probably could still work. Something like "Most famously in 2018 where a bakery tried to claim religious grounds for denying a gay couple service". It's still significant, but it doesn't mention the Supreme Court ruling, which is a separate issue.

Edited by Eagal on Nov 16th 2018 at 6:24:37 AM

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

I think that is misuse of the trope. Gaynst is about individual characters struggling or having internal turmoil due to their sexuality, not the existence of societal prejudice against certain sexualities in general. You could make the argument that the bakeshop decision led to more actual instances of Gayngst or portrayals of it in the media, but that's not what the example says. I don't really think that's true either.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Yeah, I kinda thought so on this one. There are several LGBT dramas that I know of (Wandering Son being one of them in regards to transgender issues in Japan) as well as various yaoi/yuri titles, but many of the LGBT characters in fiction are portrayed more realistically. And even with the LGBT angst that is involved, it often depicted with the reality of society and struggles LGBT characters have to deal with in society. That being said, I think there are just too many examples in the list that would warrant a Gayngst trope, but I think Eagal's wording is much better.

Edited by DarkPaladinX on Nov 17th 2018 at 8:04:24 AM

I don't dispute that there are works made now that use the Gayngst trope, and it's a trope that's obviously Truth in Television. But we don't need to list every trope that occurs in every work made in the 2010's, especially when the entries are being used to shoehorn references to hot-off-the-presses controversies. The point of this trope list is to list tropes that emerged in the decade, or are particularly ubiquitous/iconic in the decade. And I would argue that the incidence of Gayngst in the 2010's is about the same as earlier (or even less, as there's been a push towards media representation of LGBT characters that aren't always miserable and have other things going on besides their sexuality, see the entry for Bury Your Gays).

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Is the Pronoun Trouble example necessary? It doesn't really fit the trope's definition, not to mention that the topic of gender identity, especially non-binary gender, is quite controversial, so attempting to present one definition of gender as more "correct" probably breaks the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment.

I've looked into this trope in the page. The first part can be removed because some cultures like India and Pakistan have the concept of "third-gender" (i.e. hijra) and doesn't fit into the Pronoun Trouble trope.

The second part (which I've added a few months back) can be kept because misgendering transgender people is a big issue when it comes to legal documents such as ID cards, birth certificates, driver licenses, etc. and "bathroom bills" has been passed in several states in U.S. that forces transgender individual to use bathrooms on basis of biological sex. Even with sex rearrangement surgery, some states (such as Ohio, Kansas, and Tennessee) refuse to amend birth certificates (Wikipedia has more details on this). Also, referring transgender by their biological pronoun rather than the pronoun they identify themselves as (alongside with "deadnaming," or referring a transgender individual by birth name) has been a big issue as well (often done deliberately by conservatives)

Edited by DarkPaladinX on Nov 17th 2018 at 3:18:09 AM

Is this too controversial?

• Lurid Tales of Doom: The 2016 presidential election was marked by the emergence of heavily fictionalized, if not totally fake, news trying to defame either Trump or Clinton. Sites such as Breitbart and Russia Today have been the most notorious cases.

No, Dark Paladin X, what you suggested is the opposite of what I meant. I meant do not list situations like "LGBT rights vs religious rights" as discrimination against gay people. Respecting the rights of people to refuse to partake in gay marriage on religious grounds (such as Christian bakers and Muslim salon owners), is not discrimination against gay people but respect to religious people; the LBGT people can get that business elsewhere, or for things besides gay weddings, they're not being denied it completely. The only example I thought might count, if true, is the idea that the Trump administration were going to be restrictions on trans people serving in the military on account of how the medicine and surgery for gender transition effects their bodies. I heard it on the news, but these days they can seldom be considered an unbiased source of information, especially where Trump is concerned.

As for Pronoun Trouble, I think that the point addressing it is fine as is. I also think we can also leave Lurid Tales of Doom as is.

Edited by ArtemisStyle on Nov 18th 2018 at 6:53:51 AM

Revisiting nicknames for the 2010s, I was thinking, how about "The Pink Decade". "The Pink Decade" due to the prominence of millennial pink in aesthetics, and how shades of pink has also been a more popular color for both genders. It's also a echo for "The Mauve Decade" for The Gay '90s.

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In the Pronoun Trouble entry. This: "The most hardline supporters of the idea have come to support (among other things) the idea that the world's languages should add gender-neutral pronouns, that genders are assigned to children at birth in a practice which parents should stop, that it's a form of bigotry to refer to strangers by gender-specific pronouns, and that biological sex (and even species) is a myth." seems to be baseless fearmongering. I'm sure someone has seen someone somewhere make this arguemen, but this suggests some organized movement with ties to broader trans rights groups. This is why we don't trope real life, because our lack of citation requirements let’s weird claims like this through.

I've seen a few Flame Wars fought over these topics on other websites, so they're definitely controversial subjects. "Bigotry" is also a negatively-loaded word, which makes the example feel like it's Righting Great Wrongs.

Plus, it doesn't even fit the definition of Pronoun Trouble. Even if we keep it, it should be moved to Gender Neutral Writing.

I've literally never heard anyone call it that.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"