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They can probably be cut.
Hm, I'm noticing that Fan Dumb was added very recently, and that there have been edit wars over Oppressive States of America. Perhaps this page should be locked after this cleanup or given a version of the Complete Monster treatment where we vet all examples.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
I assumed Not So Different would be NRLEP, as that seems obvious, but it isn't. Curious.
Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 16th 2018 at 5:25:53 AM
I think the "Complete Monster" treatment could be fine.
P.S.: Does anyone mind if I eventually start "clean-up threads" for the other "Decades" pages?
Edited by RAraya on Aug 16th 2018 at 6:32:23 AM
That's a good idea.
I say we cut all troping real life, even if it doesn't violate ROCEJ. Best not to open the door to any more nonsense, and the "neutrality" of an entry on politics is so endlessly debateable we would be better just cutting them.
Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 16th 2018 at 5:34:48 AM
Well, here's the "Decades" clean-up thread
.
P.S.: For some reason, I think that, if the last two years hadn't been so charged (not only in a political way), we wouldn't be arguing about cleaning this page (and by default, all the other decade pages).
Edited by RAraya on Aug 16th 2018 at 6:54:07 AM
🍊orange fursona🧡
Regarding animation-related tropes, how do we rewrite the current animation tropes, as The Millennium Age of Animation was cut for... well... being a Useful Note? I mean, animation got a revival on this decade, or at least during the first half. And Thin-Line Animation is a trope on it's own.
Should the description be transferred to the Useful Notes page?
The History Repeats section might need a trim. Or a bit of pruning.
Edited by alnair20aug93 on Aug 17th 2018 at 4:07:01 PM
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I think the best thing to do with The Millennium Age of Animation would be to put a wick in the trope description, with a short summary of the article/what happened in animation.
History Repeats was brought up previously here. All of those tropes had a weak consensus to cut, but no one has done it yet. Not sure if I should do it since I've been one of the strongest voices for getting rid of those.
🍊orange fursona🧡
All I could say about History Repeats is that, hoo boy, everything done in the past two centuries is all right here in one decade.
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Just removed the more contentious (and/or irrelevant) bits from the History Repeats entry.
🍊orange fursona🧡
First on out list: Victorian Britain.
It's been stated the Arab Spring echoed that of the 1848 Revolutions. Then there's the rollback of conservatism, where Victorian values replaced Regency era sensibilities. I've seen that in other descriptions where there's a conservative rollback, that we're farfetched from Victorian conservatism.
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The British response to the European revolutions of 1848 was fear that a similar revolution would happen in Britain. That has not been the response to the Arab Spring in the US (though there are rumor it has been the response from the Russian government), so I don't know if the comparison works.
Cut all the tropes from this post of mine except Author Existence Failure, Big, Fat Future (both borderline in my opinion), and Serious Business. I cut down the Deep South entry, and re-wrote Solar Punk. I will post write-ups for The Generation Gap, My Country Tis of Thee That I Sting, Serious Business, and Stylistic Suck in a while later.
I also cut some entries mentioned in Water Blap's post here : The City vs. the Country, The Cobbler's Children Have No Shoes, Cue the Flying Pigs, End of an Age, Enemy Mine, Good Old Ways, Nazi Hunter, La Résistance.
Took the axe to Golden Mean Fallacy as well, leaving only the Bioshock Infinite and Nick Spencer's Captain America examples which weren't directly about current politics, though I'm also not sure they should stay.
End of an Age I think could stand to be re-instated if done carefully, but as it was a wall of text with lots of complaining about politics.
Edited by naturalironist on Aug 19th 2018 at 4:31:31 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
You literally didn't give reason why Bio Punk needs to be removed. Besides GMO opposition example is only thing is related to being controversial in real-life.
I mean to can tell them to rewrite it shorter or update it to current times because I'm guy put it there before my editing rights were stripped, But you didn't give any good reason why to remove genre?
Edited by Franco-America2018 on Aug 19th 2018 at 5:32:47 AM
I also feel these entries could be deleted or use rewrites:
- Cultural Cringe: This can be possibly be rewritten to be about its use in media because it currently is just complaining about politics.
- Easily Forgiven: Should be cut because tropes can't be subverted in real-life.
- Fan Dumb: Should be cut for applying a Flame Bait trope to real-life. Though it could possibly be rewritten as a Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things entry, as the rise of social media has led to that becoming more common.
- My Country Tis of Thee That I Sting: Could be rewritten to be about its use in media.
- Periphery Demographic: I don't know if we should keep the political examples. It's a stretch to call supporters of politicians "fans."
- "Rashomon"-Style: Troping controversial real-life events, but it's written pretty neutrally.
- Serious Business: The bullet point about "being apolitical in the Trump era" should be deleted due to being ROCEJ-violating which is the same reason we decided to remove Neutrality Backlash. The bullet point about endorsing Trump should also be deleted for violating ROCEJ.
- Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers!: The last sentence should be deleted because tropes can't be subverted in real-life.
- Sliding Scale of Libertarianism and Authoritarianism: Possibly ROCEJ-violating, as it tropes controversial real-life politics.
- Tyrant Takes the Helm: ROCEJ-violating, and uses the Weasel Words "many people consider x as this".
Biopunk was only troping real life. The example even stated that this trope wasn't that popular in media at the time. These decades pages aren't supposed to be works pages for a decade where we list the tropes that apply to events from that time, they are about what these time periods are like in media. So the trope list should be tropes that were created or popular during that time.
If you can make the argument that Biopunk actually is a popular or important genre during The New '10s, feel free to post a re-written entry here. But that's not what the entry said.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Those can probably go.
Periphery Demographic: if there are political examples those should go. But the overall trope is noteworthy- the rise of the periphery demographic has had a big impact on how animation gets made, and the adult animation fan/Brony is a fairly important subculture of the decade.
Serious Business: Yeah that definitely needs a re-write. I am unsure how to approach it myself- I think the fact that all media and entertainment has become highly politicized is important and noteworthy for this page. Since this coincided with Trump's campaign and/or election, I'm not sure how to phrase this without contention.
Edited by naturalironist on Aug 19th 2018 at 10:45:04 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
🍊orange fursona🧡
If I may add my thoughts:
- Bare Your Midriff: There's a point that it's no longer an erogenous zone, though what I see in current fashions is that most of them "barely" show the navel area.
- Career Versus Family: I turned 25 today, and I feel like having a job before starting a family seems relevant for the most part.
- Cultural Cringe: Sounds America-centric to say the least. I'm not American, and I have my own share of cringe regarding my country's antics, but it's best that I ought to leave those transgressions at the forums, or say nothing at all.
- Disaster Movie: There had been a lot during the first half of the decade. Not sure if we have newer films for that genre. The closest thing we had was Independence Day: Resurgence in 2016.
- Easily Forgiven: Yeah, we're still salty, but do we even need this? It's like adding more salt to the wound. Cut it.
- Foreign Culture Fetish: Not sure why Canada is here other than it has better healthcare than the States?
- Granola Girl: Needs a re-write; can't read with this Wall of Text.
- History Repeats: Where do I start?
- Victorian Britain: Already mentioned; seems to have a point;
- Antebellum America and The American Civil War: No comment at the moment, except that it's a mouthful;
- The decades are fine though, except for two parts; one in The Roaring '20s, where there's no mention of sensationalism (the notion of fake news and clickbait, sounds not too farfetched ) as a hot topic, and one in The '90s, where "Technology rapidly transforms public life." Rephrase it, as technology does transform public life whichever time period you are.
- Do we need the 2016 Democratic Primaries entry?
- The last entry does sound fascinating. Even I think we're into a Second Cold War. I mean,... Balance Of Powers.
- The Internet Is Serious Business: It is. It ain't just the Twitter bot though. There's also privacy all with that changes in privacy policy thing in websites everywhere and the thing on Facebook.
- Job-Stealing Robot: As someone who lives on a "Third World" country, I'm not sure how to comment on this.
- Monster Clown: And don't forget Pennywise.
- Network Decay: Relevant due to having to compete to New Media, but the description sounds ambiguous.
- Nostalgia Filter: The last entry sounds like politics creeping into 90s nostalgia.
- One-Hit Wonder: Can anyone provide context on why Jennifer Lawrence is here?
- Serious Business: Woah... And how on the re-write.
Other than those, it's all I could think of.
Edited by alnair20aug93 on Aug 20th 2018 at 4:15:59 PM
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Bare Your Midriff: I’ve seen people wearing what are basically glorified sports bras as shirts out in public. I think this one is merited.
Cultural Cringe: Does this even allow real life examples? The page doesn’t have any... Cut.
Foreign Culture Fetish: agree the Canada example is a stretch. Korean entry is overly US centric- Hallyu is a phenomenon across Asia as well.
History Repeats: I think this should all be cut, but some people were re-writing it.
Nostalgia Filter: kill the last bullet point.
One-Hit Wonder: is this notable? Does his decade have any more than previous decades?
I’m not sure how I feel about some tropes that are frequently in the public discourse but not so much in fiction... Generation Gap, Job Vs Family, Job-Stealing Robot all fall into this in my opinion. They’re pretty relevant to the zeitgeist but would basically be troping media narratives on real life. Thoughts?
Edited by naturalironist on Aug 20th 2018 at 7:11:02 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
I went ahead and made some cuts and rewrites to the page. I mainly removed the ROCEJ violations, troping of real-life controversial topics, and stretches, and I rewrote the Fan Dumb entry as a Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things entry.
Re-posting from previous pages. Re-writes of previously-removed tropes, can I go ahead and add these back?
- Capitalism Is Bad: The creation of publications that openly denounced capitalism, such as Jacobin and Current Affairs magazines and podcasts such as Chapo Trap House that blended humor with left-wing politics, accompanied the resurgence of socialism in the anglosphere. At the same time, science-fiction and dystopian media, such as Black Mirror and Sorry to Bother You, increasingly critiqued what was known as "Late Capitalism" and its impact on society.
- Darker and Edgier: A popular trend with many media reboots, and many works aimed at younger audiences featured teen heroes in dystopian societies. The trend may have been kicked off by the The Dark Knight Trilogy, Christopher Nolan’s mature and dark take on the Batman franchise.
- Manchild: Immature protagonists struggling to grow up were frequent comedy protagonists, particularly in works associated with Judd Apatow. Lena Dunham’s Girls proved that this wasn’t restricted to men. These uses of this trope fed media controversy, as newswriters writing about The Generation Gap tended to stereotype the Millennial generation as immature narcissists.
- Police Brutality: Growing attention to this topic led to more portrayals of police brutality in fiction, including several Ripped from the Headlines films such as Fruitvale Station.
- Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism: Works tended toward the cynical side during this time, with a surge in dystopian and After the End works. The rise of Hipster culture was accompanied by media emphasizing Irony, making idealism uncool. At the same time, cynicism didn’t quite reach the level of '90s Anti-Hero, as most works still featured characters that were on some level relatable.
Edited by naturalironist on Aug 20th 2018 at 7:19:45 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
They sound good.
Regarding Foreign Culture Fetish:
- Apart from many jokes on TV about being in a better standing than the States (not limited to the old health care schtick), Canada has seen a so-called "Trudeau-mania", with many portals doing pieces about Mr. Trudeau's "quirkiness" (primarily about his odd taste in socks), even though he's as divisive as any other Western leader at home. Anyway, I'm realizing this might be too tenuous and quite US-centric.
- Korean culture has not only become popular in the US, but also in South America (at least in the "Southern Cone", where the latest Korean-originated craze is a walking challenge that seems quite dangerous... and rather dumb—a mayor in my country got in hot water for doing that).
Among other issues... Here's a re-write:
- Serious Business: Given an increasingly tense cultural climate, popular culture in the West has either become politically-charged or subject to scrutiny during the second half of the decade.
P.S.: Cleaned the Granola Girl entry. Didn't realize how redundant the thing was.
Edited by RAraya on Aug 20th 2018 at 10:57:59 AM
Removed tropes from my previous post. I also removed Oppressive States of America (discussed previously on the Trump thread) for blatantly violating a rule banning post-60's examples. Other entries that seem to be troping real life that I don't think have been mentioned:
Edited by naturalironist on Aug 19th 2018 at 4:12:18 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"