The criteria for Unintentionally Unsympathetic says:
"When a character's supposed insecurities or embarrassing quirks are supposed to inspire sympathy, but fail to impress the audience because they're mishandled or plain written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around."
This is the basic criteria of the trope. There is more after but I am not sure what was present from the start and what was edited in afterwords to expand the definition. This trope is becoming more popular, with the page starting to be split-off into sub pages and such. And like all popular YMMV tropes this is causing an influx of bad examples that are probably just one-sided complaining, shoehorning, and bashing which is not in the spirit of this wiki. You can see this is causing issues just by looking at the pages discussion thread. I felt that the trope needed a dedicated cleanup thread. This way edits can be done without causing edit wars and getting people banned.
Some guidelines if a character or event is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
1. It has to be unintentional on the authors part. It is in the title. All examples that were intentional on the author's part are disqualified by definition.
2. The example should state exactly why the author or narrative intended the subject to have been sympathetic and why it failed to resonate with the audience. If the example can not clearly state these two points, it is a bad example and needs to at minimum be rewritten.
3. Neutral tone: No insults. I know it is fun to complain about stuff but complaining is not in the spirit of the wiki. So long as one side isn't promoting hate speech examples should be written without taking a side. Examples that are heavily favoring one side or insulting the other side are probably not valid examples.
4. There should be a wide accepted disagreement between the audience and the author to be a valid example. By that I mean that there should be large consensus in the audience disagreeing with the author over why the character is unsympathetic instead of sympathetic. If the audience is too divided and one section thinks agrees with the author and the other doesn't, the example could be a pet peeve of a single person, which isn’t noteworthy.
Lastly, always consider Square Peg, Round Trope and be mindful if the example may fit better under a different trope such as Base-Breaking Character, Broken Base, and The Scrappy. Please visit other cleanup threads if you have questions about tropes that do not involve Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
Feel free to help if you spot some bad examples or can point out more rules for the trope. Or argue with me over the definitions, this is a cleanup thread after all.
MOD NOTICE: As of October 26, 2022, this thread now covers Unintentionally Sympathetic as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:15:48 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Removed Athrun and reworked Neo to explain why his intended redeeming traits didn't work, moving to NLID where applicable. New question:
- Starlight Glimmer was hit with this badly in the Season 5 finale. Her Freudian Excuse was poor at best (losing a single friend in her childhood, and not even shown trying to keep in touch with him) while her actions were downright abominable in comparison. Telling is that her immediate next appearance has her questioning why she got off so easily and if she deserved it.
That they lampshades this the next episode, where she fully admits to her wrongdoing, suggests the writers were aware enough of this that it's not unintentional. The more drawn out redemption suggests this was the plan all along.
Starlight does have enough critics that she's an example in some way. Any ideas how to revise?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Nov 30th 2018 at 5:12:59 AM
The majority of the mane characters in FIM sans maybe Applejack are Base-Breaking Character at best. The fact almost every major character has been blamed for FIM's arguable Seasonal Rot or Dork Age says a lot. But at the same time, Starlight sounds like a keeper in that. Especially since unlike previous villains she was handed her redemption and everyone seems comfortable around her despite the fact she nearly ruined time.
If any character in Fim is Unintentionally Unsympathetic it's Discord in Make New Friends but keep Discord as he's literally expecting Fluttershy to choose him over any other pony for the Gala, and annoys the others because he can.
He's call out for such in that episode, so not unintentional.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Dr Kennedy, the pregnant woman and friend of Addison that you have to track down and save in the quest "The Little Things That Matter". Although the pregnancy and imminent birth of her son in the face of a Roekarr threat is supposed to evoke sympathy, her actions paint her as selfish and entitled. She then steals supplies from the outposts. Once she's rescued, she receives no comeuppance for this, and every character involved speaks of her glowingly.
I restored it since it was deleted without explanation. Thoughts?
Planeswalker
I sure didn't feel any sympathy for her. She was only pregnant in the first place because she'd disobeyed orders and continues to steal and rebel. The definition of an Ungrateful Bastard.
Edited by PhiSat on Dec 4th 2018 at 3:32:18 AM
Oissu!
Although it's not a position I'm personally entirely comfortable with supporting, it seems pretty clear to me how someone might sympathize with choosing to defy a Pregnancy Prohibition, which makes the first part of that read a little weird to me.
(Do we have a trope for Pregnancy Prohibition, BTW?)
Edited by nrjxll on Dec 4th 2018 at 5:50:37 AM
Planeswalker
To me she came across as incredibly selfish, seeing as the prohibition was only a temporary one. I didn't write that example, I was just giving my two cents on the matter.
Oissu!
YMMV.Fantastic Beasts The Crimes Of Grindelwald
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: In contrast to Jacob being Unintentionally Sympathetic, Queen becomes unsympathetic. Trying to bewitch him with a love spell to force him to marry her and then never apologizing is bad enough, but then the movie acts like Jacob is in the wrong for thinking "She's crazy," because Queenie read his mind. Then she's easily converted to Gellert Grindelwald's side, even though a) Grindelwald makes it abundantly clear he's racist against Muggles like her boyfriend and plans to turn them into servants for witches and wizards at best, and b) Grindelwald tried to murder her sister in the last movie. Her fall to evil is meant to be portrayed as a tragedy motivated by love, but instead it just makes her look impossibly naive and incredibly disrespectful to the man she supposedly loves.
Immediately zapped since her turning evil means it's, for all its issues, not unintentional. Thoughts?
From YMMV.RWBYV 6 E 8 Dead End.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: As much as Jaune has a right to be upset after learning about Ozpin, he loses some sympathy when, in his paranoia, he takes his anger out on Oscar, using him as a proxy for Ozpin. Possibly an Intended Audience Reaction as Jaune looks like he's undergoing a My God, What Have I Done? moment when he learns Oscar's gone missing.
Since Jaune actions are treated in the wrong the writers didn't see it as justifiable.
Edited by WhirlRX on Dec 15th 2018 at 11:15:05 AM
I think you meant to link to YMMV.RWBYV 6 E 8 Dead End. And you should be careful about discussing this episode, since it's not yet available to regular viewers. I'm pretty sure there are special rules for RWBY examples about episodes that aren't yet available to free viewers. The recap page is fair game, but examples should not be added anywhere else until a week later when it becomes available for free.
No, the other one.
Also the RWBY fandom here is notorious for shoehorning. Just like this example looks like.
Check out my fanfiction!
"Possibly an Intended Audience Reaction" = not unintentional. Cutting.
And the person who added it states the source of the backlash is Tumblr and Reddit, which doesn't normally distinguish unintentional hate (axed examples of their complaints in Scrappy cleanup) and is too reactionary (maybe later episodes will clear this up) to be a good source.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 16th 2018 at 8:44:45 AM
I removed the RWBY example myself. My apologies for placing it, I was not attempting to shoehorn. I had seen reactions to Jaune's behavior however on Reddit and Tumblr, so went to add it, but added the Intended Audience Reaction after several overlooked, if not ignored, Jaune's My God, What Have I Done? moment at the end. After talking with Ferot, I decided to rectify my mistake.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Dec 17th 2018 at 9:05:21 AM
Vegeta: I'm back bitches!
No, the other one.
Wish other tropers were as thoughtful as you.
Check out my fanfiction!Even though I found a more fitting trope for the YMMV page, a case of Epileptic Trees I'd seen regarding two newly introduced characters, it appears the page still got cut due to the misuse of this trope. I'm guessing I can't recreate it now for the Epileptic Trees entry.
Vegeta: I'm back bitches!
From YMMV.Iron Fist 2017
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Joy can come off like this to a few. While she has every right to be angry with Danny and Ward lying about her father being alive (despite it being for her own protection), blaming them, specifically Danny, for ruining her seems a bit much, especially when her father was the one who insisted on the secret and Ward suffered much more than she did because of it. She also seems to try to avoid taking responsibility for Davos' actions once he steals the Iron Fist from Danny. Fortunately, she gets her fair share of a "Reason You Suck" Speech from Ward, shows visible signs of regret when she sees the video of Danny suffering, and ultimately resolves to try to retrieve the bowl from Davos with help from BB.
This is also one that debates with itself about how unintentional it is. Joy is supposed to be a villain in the season.
No, the other one.
I don't think it seems unintentional.
Check out my fanfiction!
UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Western Animation:
- His "aspiring detective" sub-plot in [[SeasonalRot Book 2]] also didn't win him any fans as aside from the series ''never'' giving an exact reason ''why'' he became a cop, let alone aspiring detective anyway, the show [[CharacterShilling clearly wanted him]] to look like a [[TheWoobie Woobie underdog]] in this pursuit except that opposing him were [[ThoseTwoGuys Lu and Gang]], two ''blatant'' Hate Sinks that wouldn't look out of place in a bad fanfic and Chief Beifong being [[CharacterDerailment derailed]] from a competent badass into becoming just DaChief which meant it was less Mako looking better and more everyone being/becoming [[TookALevelInDumbass idiots]] and/or [[TookALevelInJerkass asswipes]] ''especially'' the [[UnfortunateImplications women]].
This seems more about listing complaints than being an example of this trope. They added a Broken Aesop entry that cleanup said to cut because of such.
Also, is Unintentionally Unsympathetic applicable if the problem is not the character in question but others being made to look bad to make them look better?
No, the other one.
Let's see. Excessive cursive for emphasis. Check. Tons of sinkholes for extra opinions. Check. Sinkholes to Unfortunate Implications which requires citations. Check. Comparisons with bad fanfiction. Check. The rest filled in with extra complaining. Check.
Want to guess whether I want the example cut?
Check out my fanfiction!
Bringing up this example from Love, Simon:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: While Abby is arguably an exception, Nick and Leah play with the Conflict Ball. All three realize after the holiday break that Simon's been lying to and matchmaking them, as well as using Abby as a bartering chip to keep his secret. While they collectively tell him off for it, this is the first time they've spoken to their best friend in weeks, after he was Forced Out of the Closet on the biggest possible stagenote . Simon points out he was being blackmailed into keeping Nick away from Abby, in addition to genuinely (if obliviously) believing Leah would be happy with Nick. Leah's reasons for being upsetnote fall entirely under the umbrella of Incompatible Orientation, despite her professing not to care that Simon's gay. At no point do any of the trio express interest or resentment towards Martin's part in the manipulations after Simon identifies him as the blackmailer, and they simply look on as he's being publicly humiliated by school bullies. Abby is justifiably angry at being used, betrayed, and forced to endure Martin's uncomfortable presence — made worse by the fact that Simon's manipulations comprise almost half of her friendship with him by that point — but Simon's oldest friends ultimately seem petty for drawing out his anxiety, cutting him off during what they knew to be his lowest point, and leaving him to fend for himself. Simon's visible uncertainty watching the three after Cabaret indicates that at least Abby and Nick still hadn't forgiven him by that point.
Why do you thinks it might not be an example?
I wrote the one about Mako. Ok, I'll rewrite it as soon as I get unsuspended because I'm telling you, anyone who's seen that season knows full well the writers badly tried to make Mako look sympathetic by simply making everyone else lose competence with Beifong and Lu and Gang giving him a hard time simply to make him appear as an underdog for the audience.
Also I believe it should count because Mako isn't acting any nicer/better than he did in Book 1 as he still ignores everyone not involved with his goal, hypocritically helps Asami despite the same risks he said he wouldn't help Korra for and the Unfortunate Implications page citing the Hysterical Woman trope all with the intent that the intention that we're still supposed to see Mako as sympathetic until he lies to Korra in "Night of a Thousand Stars".
Edited by K2Misfit on Dec 27th 2018 at 4:39:36 AM
I think once its been deem a character is not Unintentionally Unsympathetic, you cant put it back.
Unintentionally Unsympathetic.Film
- Peter himself can also fall into this category. Like every other version of Spider-Man, Peter is supposed to be sympathetic because his double life as Spider-Man makes his normal life as Peter unmanageable. But in this version, whenever Peter chooses to be Spider-Man, he usually ends up making things worse for everyone. If he had just listened to Tony Stark and tended to his life as Peter instead, he wouldn't have any reason to keep ignoring his personal responsibilities. It is somewhat mitigated in that he actually gets called out for his carelessness who does learn his lesson by the end.
The "gets called out" and "learn his lesson" suggests its intentional. Cut?
If a character is turning into a villain, that's a pretty strong argument for it being intentional.
Agreed with NLID being a better fit.
Check out my fanfiction!