Base Breaking Character Cleanup

I'm pretty sure that anything YMMV is automatically NRLEP. If a creator gets a YMMV page, only things directly relating to their works are allowed on there.

If it's not already a NRLEP reaction, I'd send Base-Breaking Character to the real life maintenance thread.

Found another Base-Breaking Character subpage, this time it's for the SCP Foundation. What's interesting is that every article on the website can actually be voted up or down by the community, so their reception amongst the fanbase is actually quantifiable. Each article has a list of users who voted and whether they gave the article a or a .

I tallied up the info and I think we're going to have to do some pruning on the page. Here are my findings:

To sum up? 579 is the only SCP on the page I can safely say has split the fanbase in two. If you want to be generous with the exact percentage it requires to count as a Broken Base, we could also include 2212 and maybe 239. Every other character listed has received mostly positive feedback. Thoughts?

edited 20th Mar '18 11:45:43 AM by chasemaddigan

A like/dislike vote doesn't say much, unless there's an option for a middle ground answer. Without that, there's no way of determining whether one exists. Also, it doesn't say anything about whether it's actually a conflict about it in the fanbase, or just some mild difference in opinions.

Also removed it from YMMV.Garth Ennis. Not troping creators and all that, especially with tropes like this one.

edited 22nd Mar '18 12:27:21 AM by AnotherDuck

Here's one that should be evaluated.

• Kefla, the fusion of the above also counts. Kefla has a sizable fanbase for her attractive design and being a female fusion, but at the same time, people (usually the same ones annoyed at the two above) feel their fusion was a cop-out in order to keep them relevant. Fans also criticise how Kefla was powerful even by Fusion standards, since both her components were weaker than an exhaused Super Saiyan God Goku, yet she's able to challenge Ultra Instinct Goku. It doesn't help the episodes with her don't have any participation from anyone besides Frieza (Who simply watches), and not allowing Toppo fight with Vegeta to be seen.

That reads as a complaint with a token "but has fans" half a line tossed into it. It doesn't describe a proper broken base about it either, just disagreements, despite coming off as whining.

Should I just remove it?

Edit: I'm grabbing the Base-Breaking Character entrees from the same page since all these likely need to be evaluated.

• Base-Breaking Character: The following characters have proven to be divisive.
  • Jiren, The Ace of the Pride Troopers who is inexplicably stronger than a God of Destruction has proven to be divisive.
    • The anime treats him as a mystery with a wish he wants so much from the Super Dragon Balls, however, this also makes him boring to portion of the fanbase for little speaking for much of his appearances, not showing many heroic attributes, and nothing about him being explored at all for much of the arc. Many treat him as a Generic Doomsday Villain for this (despite being treated as a Hero Antagonist). A lot of other fans however like his design, stoic but not overly boastful demeanor, badass moments and brutal verbal put-downs to his opponents such as on Hit's profession, Vegeta's arrogance and how he's come to respect and take an interest in Goku and Vegeta, while admittedly slowly fleshing out his views on justice and seeking a purpose beyond strength. By contrast, however, many fans agree his manga counterpart is written way better due to showing these heroic attributes.
    • There is also the matter of his backstory; basically he lost his entire family to an "evil-doer" and the same "evil-doer" later on killed his mentor as well as most of his comrades while the few that survived abandoned him so he believes that being stronger is all that matters. Fans declare this to be either a sympathetic and tragic backstory that explains who he is or sees this as lame and cliched, with his "losing everyone so he becomes stronger" backstory to be overused by many anime characters and isn't really special compared to the rest, especially when Goku and Vegeta lost their entire race, yet didn't become like Jiren. There's also people who don't mind the backstory on paper, necessarily, but finds it so vaguely-defined and shoehorned in that it's hard to care. It reads like they were given an extremely basic outline with the expectation of filling in the blanks, and then just didn't. On the other hand, as Jiren has become more and more frustrated as his fight with Goku continued many fans have come to find his personality interesting and even preferable to his original heroic one Toei planned. This culminated with 130 where Jiren’s attempt to attack the stands to prove Goku wrong about people and later coming to respect him as an opponent after he defeated him, was either an interesting show of how broken he is and of his potential for growth as a character. Or the opposite and a betrayal of the heroic character they were promised. However, it should be said Jiren in the anime was never portrayed in that light and was consistently stoic, cold and very brutal from his first fight with Goku.
  • Caulifla, and Kale. The Saiyan women from Universe 6 have a fanbase that loves their personalities, Kale's development during the arc, and being the long-awaited female Super Saiyans. However, a part of the fanbase also vocally despises them for obtaining the Super Saiyan transformation very easily (Citing "tingly sensations" as the worst explanation for the Super Saiyan transformation), Kale being an Expy of Broly (Another controversial character) and the fact they took the spotlight from already established Universe 6 characters like Cabba and Hit.
  • Kefla, the fusion of the above also counts. Kefla has a sizable fanbase for her attractive design and being a female fusion, but at the same time, people (usually the same ones annoyed at the two above) feel their fusion was a cop-out in order to keep them relevant. Fans also criticise how Kefla was powerful even by Fusion standards, since both her components were weaker than an exhaused Super Saiyan God Goku, yet she's able to challenge Ultra Instinct Goku. It doesn't help the episodes with her don't have any participation from anyone besides Frieza (Who simply watches), and not allowing Toppo fight with Vegeta to be seen.
  • Android 17's prominence throughout the arc has been a subject of division. While a fan-favorite character, it has been highly debated how much focus he should have been given, especially in comparison to characters such as Gohan. There's also a matter of the massive increase in power he was given, that has now allowed him to trade blows with God-level characters. One side was happy since this means there was finally a non-Saiyan from Universe 7 to finally get this type of treatment while others felt it broke Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

edited 30th Mar '18 4:05:34 PM by keyblade333

IMO, yes, remove it. Might fit if rewritten, though.

Jiren's entry is way too long. The first sub-bullet seems reasonable. The last one seems too rambly and too wishy-washy. Seems more like several smaller points of lesser contention than one character that breaks the fanbase in two.

I've been looking at the Base-Breaking Character list from the Bleach YMMV.Bleach page, and I think a lot of them are nothing more than "fandom never has a 100% single opinion about a character" instead of it truly dividing the fandom. I'm going to list them below. Could people let me know what they think?

Note: I apologise for the length of this post, but the Bleach fandom appears to have tried to make nearly every character in the work a BBC.

• Base-Breaking Character: Lots of characters have a good amount of fans and haters, especially Hitsugaya, Orihime, and Aizen. Check out the character-specific section below for more.
  Generic example that seems to act more like a commented out note than an example. Remove that.

• Base-Breaking Character: Some praise Ichigo for being a refreshing departure from the standard shounen protagonist characterization, such as being smarter and more snarky than the norm, take interest in his Hybrid Power, and admire his desire to protect his loved ones. Others argue that his desire to protect people takes up too much of his character to the point of coming off as one-dimensional without any defined long-term goals (see Vanilla Protagonist below), and criticize his fights for his simplistic power set.
  Ichigo's never split the fandom. People like him, dislike him, are indifferent to him, and every shade in between, but it's a standard case of a fandom being full of individuals with their own opinions. Cut.

• Base-Breaking Character: One of the most polarizing characters in the series. Supporters view Orihime as an endearing and adorable Love Interest, and like her supportive role (both emotionally and physically). Common criticism against her includes her minimal fighting ability and general aversion to fighting feeling out of place in a battle shounen, and her Reality Warper powers not being utilized to their fullest extent (such as her initial vow to do something about the Hougyoku that goes nowhere). Her characterization during the Hueco Mundo arc is especially controversial; some argue that her gradual mental breakdown is a perfectly realistic response to being held in captivity while her friends risk their lives to save her, while others were frustrated by her Neutral Female role in a Recycled Script of Rukia's kidnapping arc, and came to view her worrying over Ichigo as a Most Annoying Sound.
  Driven entirely by Die for Our Ship that infamously created entire no-go regions of the Internet for Orihime fans or Orihime haters, depending on the fan forum's preferences. This wiki has cleaned up its share of imported drama over the years. Keep.

• Base-Breaking Character
  • The first camp enjoys Chad's quiet side and his development prior to the Hueco Mundo arc, but bemoan his constant track record of losing and following Ichigo too much. The second camp views him as a Satellite Character for Ichigo, and the third camp is indifferent to him, viewing him as The Generic Guy.
  This example ends up talking itself out of the trope, since a BBC can't be split into an indifferent faction. Cut
  • For worse, in the X-Cution arc he was Brainwashed and Crazy alongside Orihime thanks to Tsukishima. Fans now whine and bitch about how he "is not a true friend of Ichigo", despite how all of this was beyond his reach and he was shown clearly distressed upon having to fight Ichigo while genuinely believing he had gone mad.. A large part of the problem was the Lost Agent arc only highlighted most fan complaints about Chad. He was still generic and given an even smaller role than previous arcs. This was disappointing because Kubo later called this Chad's arc in a interview like Rukia's arc was Soul Society and Orihime's arc was the Arrancar. However, unlike those arcs Chad didn't get any character development alongside Ichigo as Rukia and Orihime did in their respective arcs. Even the reveal of Fullbring power being result of mothers being attacked by hollows was wasted on Chad. It would have been a perfect excuse to explore Chad's past and make him re-examine him as a character without Ichigo. Chad being used by Tsukishima was jut the last straw for a lot fans on Chad's character.
  It reads like complaining about complainers at first. I'm not sure there's a genuine example here. The fandom was split between hating the character for being useless and being disappointed that Kubo never used the character. I'm not sure that's quite what BBC is. This one might need some discussion. At the very least, it needs a rewrite.

Sui-Fong:

• Base-Breaking Character: A cold-hearted Jerkass, or a well-developed Defrosting Ice Queen? The same can be said of her bankai: there are those who think it's cool and suits her perfectly, and those who feel it does nothing but hinder her ability to fight.
  This is currently commented out. Her Bankai definitely could cause arguments, but we're not talking about equality of opinion. Most of the fandom hated the Bankai; only a minority (sometimes a Vocal Minority) liked it. As to the character herself, there's no BBC that I recall ever seeing. Some people liked her, some people didn't, some people didn't care. Cut.

Unohana:

• Base-Breaking Character: Her Yachiru characterization. While some fans don't like how she was turned into a Distaff Counterpart of Zaraki and served as little more than a way to further hype his character, others liked the Blood Knight, serenely Ax-Crazy angle, seeing as it would make perfect sense for everyone to fear her with the revelation.
  This did cause ructions. Still does at times. I'd agree with keeping this one.

Hinamori:

• Base-Breaking Character: Her relationship with Aizen made her extremely polarizing. Some defend her behavior by pointing out that Aizen had nearly everyone fooled into thinking that he was nice and mild-mannered, and with Hinamori especially close to him as his vice-captain whose life he once saved, it's perfectly understandable that she'd have such trouble accepting Aizen as the Big Bad. Others were extremely scornful of her desperation to believe that Aizen was innocent, especially after he'd casually stabbed her, as well as her previously lashing out against anyone who gave her even the slightest hint that they may have been responsible for Aizen's fake corpse, including her childhood friend. Her detractors eased up on her later on when she appeared to have accepted that Aizen is evil (though she still finds herself addressing him as "Captain" out of habit).
  This one definitely was an issue in its day. As written, the example is effectively talking itself of being kept on the page by saying the issue died down. In my experience, I'm not sure it's accurate to say her detractors eased up on her. The other issue is, she's listed under Americans Hate Tingle because a large part (not 100% though) of the dislike is split along cultural lines (Japanese love her, Americans hate her).

Byakuya:

• Base-Breaking Character: A well-developed, but flawed Badass with Hidden Depths, or an arrogant Jerkass? Byakuya surviving the Vandenreich's first invasion has become this. While there were a number of fans overjoyed that he did in fact survive there was still a surprising number who disliked it and felt the manga was building up to his death since the invasion started, and his surviving ended up both wasting what was a rather well-done and touching death scene and also slamming the story back toward Status Quo Is God just when many people thought we'd finally be seeing some huge shake-ups.
  I think this needs a rewrite. The first sentence should go, as it's trying to manufacture something out of nothing. The rest is a point, but not as written: Byakuya had a massive fangirl following who went berserk when he almost died, to the point of even spamming the creator's Twitter feed with death threats. Most of the rest of the fandom was just very angry with both those fangirls (for giving the fandom a bad name) and with Kubo for writing what was regarded as a really good death scene... only to not kill him off after all. Keep but rewrite.

Komamura

• Base-Breaking Character: His new transformation as if it's permanent, there will be 2 sides. One who like it or those who think Kubo got rid of the most unique thing about him.
  This is commented out at the moment. It seems rather half-hearted. As far as I know there's not a massive fandom split here. Most of the fandom simply don't like what happened to him to varying different degrees. Cut.

Hitsugaya

• Base-Breaking Character: The only one who can cause greater rifts in a fanbase is Sasuke Uchiha. Similarly with the latter, it's a case of Values Dissonance, given he doesn't have this status in Japan or Europe. To a large portion of the American Fanbase, he's Americans Hate Tingle.
  He's an Americans Hate Tingle entry. The entry itself pretty much states why. I'm not sure that makes him a BBC.

Kenpachi

• Base-Breaking Character: A badass with surprising Hidden Depths, or a testosterone-induced brute that's far more powerful than he should be?
  Got no idea on this one. Most places I saw, people liked the character, they just didn't like how one-note he was. And then he got wrapped up into the Unohana issue (see above), which was the real argument in the fandom, but isn't listed in this example. I'd suggest a rewrite to cover the Unohana issue, or cut.

Mayuri

• Base-Breaking Character: Hilariously colossal asshole, horrifically colossal asshole, or efficiently colossal asshole? Or, Heaven forbid, an unholy mix of all of the above?! You decide.
  Currently commented out. I'm not sure how much of a split there really is in the fandom. Yes, some people like him, some people hate him, and some people don't really care. Yes, arguments can get heated, but even the people who like him know he's a murderous, monstrous bastard... that's kinda why they like him. Don't know, in short.

Aizen

• Base-Breaking Character: Used to qualify as one, before his Villain Decay. Is he a Generic Doomsday Villain or a Magnificent Bastard? The answer came in the form the Deicide arc—a Smug Snake with Generic Doomsday Villain thrown in-between. Whether Aizen's final fate was was very satisfying, exposing him for the pathetic loser he was, unsatisfying or a very forced way to have us forgive him rather than getting a humiliating one-sided beatdown that he deserved.
  Currently commented out. The example talks itself out of being one and doesn't explain how he used to be one at all. Then it talks about a plot device (how he was defeated) than the character itself... which wouldn't be the BBC entry. I'm not even sure it's a Broken Base example — people liked it or didn't like or didn't care. I don't recall the fandom being at war over it.

Harribel

• Base-Breaking Character: She has her fans, but those that aren't tend to view her as an unimpressive fighter whose only real purpose was to strut around half-naked, while giving Hitsugaya a chance to seem legitimately competent.
  People liked her or they didn't. I don't recall much interest in talking about her, to be honest — at least, not until that bizarre theory about Harribel being Ichigo's hollowfied mother began which is a different subject entirely. Cut?

Riruka

• Base-Breaking Character: A stereotypical Tsundere, an arrogant Bratty Half-Pint, or an interestingly-developed Tsundere?
  Cut.

Yukio

• Base-Breaking Character: And then we see his Freudian Excuse, which isn't as heartbreaking as Jackie, but has helped him regain some respect in some fandom circles due to showing his Start of Darkness as well as how heavily neglected he was.
  Bit of a non-example here. Cut.

Kon

• Base-Breaking Character: Either you think he's funny, adorable, Woobie-ish due to his backstory and a Plucky Comic Relief, or you want him to die in a fire for being an annoyance to Ichigo all around. There is NO middle ground.
  I don't recall the fandom really discussing Kon much. He was a marmite character in the sense that he's liked or hated with no middle ground, but people didn't really get into any fights about him either. He was just irrelevant to the plot most of the time.

Tatsuki

• Base-Breaking Character: Spunky Childhood Friend of Ichigo or obnoxious, needlessly violent nuisance?
  I don't know where this is coming from. She's barely in the story as it stands. Cut.

Zangetsu

• Base-Breaking Character: The revelation that the original "Zangetsu" is actually Ichigo's Quincy powers and the Hollow is actually his real zanpakuto. Some find it an interesting twist that, unlike many of the series' other plot developments, actually had a good deal of foreshadowing. Others think that it's overly convoluted, that it doesn't make sense in spite of the foreshadowing, and that it ruins Zangetsu's character by turning him from a nurturing mentor into a far more sinister figure, since he claims that he was originally planning to kill Ichigo if he became a shinigami. Others question much of the so-called "foreshadowing" or pick out instances where it was contradicted. For example, there are multiple times when Ichigo's Inner Hollow professes to not have a name, and even refers to the Old Man as "Zangetsu" multiple times.
  This seems to be recording different opinions that exist in the fandom. There certainly weren't any wars about it that I can recall. It was an interesting discussion for people, people had opinions, the odd individual might have got bent out of shape every so often, but mostly.... I think this is shoehorning.

Mask de Masculine

• Base-Breaking Character: Some fans warmed up to him because of his bombastic personality. Others still feel that his Masked Luchador gimmick clashes too badly with the Sternritter's general Nazi theme, in addition to having a really stupid power.
  Shoehorning the fact fandoms never have a single opinion about a character. Cut.

Candice

• Base-Breaking Character: Either you find her Hot-Blooded demeanor overbearing or endearing. There's nothing in between.
  Don't know where this is coming from, there were plenty of fans who were completely indifferent to her. I think this is another 'fandoms never fully agree' shoehorn. Cut

Meninas

• Base-Breaking Character: Opinion is divided over whether or not fans see her as a Flat Character or as The Stoic.
  Shoehorning 'fandoms never agree'. Cut.

edited 2nd Apr '18 8:29:33 AM by Wyldchyld

At the very least if Aizen's entry stays it needs to be rewritten. He's a listed Complete Monster so can't be referred to as GDV as that makes him exempt from that trope. We've started to crack down on calling a Charcater a GDV when there a CM even if its entries like Base-Breaking Character.

edited 2nd Apr '18 1:16:26 PM by miraculous

I found another real life example.

Ted Nugent

• Base-Breaking Character: The very embodiment of this trope. Some Americans see him as the true defender of the Constitution and thus a model American, while others see him as a cradle-robbing, red-necked bully.

That sounds like a ROCEJ violation if nothing else.

Cut that.

One entry I'd like to discuss from Fire Emblem:

Here's the thing: Tharja and Camilla are both very popular characters. They scored pretty high on popularity polls, and I don't really see any evidence that opinions about them are split in half in the way required to be considered a Base-Breaking Character.

Also, and I apologize if I'm seeing something that isn't there, but the "However, they also have many fans for their fanservicey qualities" also comes across as somewhat presumptuous that the main reason their fans like them is for their superficial traits.

I'm pretty sure lumping a bunch of characters together like that isn't kosher for this. We already have a similar rule for The Scrappy regarding groups not qualifying.

Axe it.

Are people okay with me carrying out the suggestions in my Bleach post above?

Yeah, sure.

From YMMV.Sly Cooper Thieves In Time under Base-Breaking Character:

• Penelope. See Ron the Death Eater and Ass Pull for what that one's about.
• Even Sly himself, to an extent. Mostly regarding his treatment of Carmelita (his reason for returning to crime behind her back is essentially out of boredom, to start with) and a fairly major case of Aesop Amnesia (a major theme of the third game was Sly realizing he would rather be with Carmelita than playing with her emotions). His jokesy quips (after formally being a Deadpan Snarker) is a more minor point of contention.

Both seem too one-sided to count, and the former violates rules against redirecting to other parts of the page (parts which don't help the one-sidedness) and a ZCE otherwise.

"To an extent" are classic Weasel Words and signify a shoehorn on their own.

I'd comment out the first example due to last of context and cut the second.

Yeah, they look like complaints to me.

The One Piece ymmv page seems suspect to me.

• Luffy is either an entertainingly simple-minded and free-spirited badass whose goal you want to root for, or the personification of every Stock Shōnen Hero cliche without much development.
• Zoro started slipping into this after the Time Skip. He's either awesome for steamrolling his opponents, or boring for the same reason. Those who fall into the latter tend to be more appreciative of Sanji below, feeling that his character arc during the Whole Cake Island arc makes up for his shortcomings in battle.
• Usopp. Some like the angle Oda intended on making Usopp a relatively normal character in terms of strength who often has to use his wits to pull a victory, while others view him a nuisance for his cowardice and dead weight. This reached a head during the Water 7 arc, in which he temporarily parts ways with the crew out of a refusal to accept that the Going Merry is beyond saving. Some were sympathetic to his attachment, while others viewed him as an idiot who the crew would have been better off without.
• Nami is liked by some for being the crew's voice of reason and Ms. Fanservice, but disliked by others for her often violent behavior toward her crewmates and being the poster girl for the controversial female design.
• Sanji's immense love of women is either endearing or annoying, particularly post-Time Skip when his perversion is amped up after spending two years with transvestites. There's also controversy regarding his battle performance in the New World, with some claiming he's been fine and the focus he's had doesn't need to be on his battles while others believe he's had Badass Decay and should actually get to fight someone properly.
• Boa Hancock is either endearing for her crush on Luffy and sympathetic for her Dark and Troubled Past, or an obnoxious bitch outside of a creepy obsession with Luffy.

Most of these entries seem to fall under "This is a large fandom, people won't have the same opinions." Especially since at 900 chapters all of the main characters (including ones not listed here) have had plenty of highs and lows for people to like them, dislike them, feel indifferent, and everything in between. Thus, failing to meet the Little to no middle ground criteria.

The only one that might be valid is Sanji, but a good chunk of it is based on his handling in the current arc, which genuinely is extremely divisive (and would need to be elaborated on). But again, it's just one arc out of more than 20, and I suspect that a lot of the negativity will cool down once he's back in a more conventional role.

edited 8th Apr '18 7:25:22 PM by mrbits

I say cut unless someone can actually provide evidence that it's a pretty even split with little to no middle ground. I also have to ask: do those entries take the Japanese fanbase into consideration, considering they are the target audience for that work?

Okay, regarding the YMMV.Bleach examples, I've retained the following, and cut the rest for being shoehorning the fact that a fandom will never have a 100% identical opinion about any individual character.

The exceptions are Hinamori and Hitsugaya, whom I've cut because they're Americans Hate Tingle examples instead of Base-Breaking Character examples.

The ones I've retained are as follows:

Orihime Inoue:

• Base-Breaking Character: One of the most polarizing characters in the series. Supporters view Orihime as an endearing and adorable Love Interest, and like her supportive role (both emotionally and physically). Common criticism against her includes her minimal fighting ability and general aversion to fighting feeling out of place in a battle shounen, and her Reality Warper powers not being utilized to their fullest extent (such as her initial vow to do something about the Hougyoku that goes nowhere). Her characterization during the Hueco Mundo arc is especially controversial; some argue that her gradual mental breakdown is a perfectly realistic response to being held in captivity while her friends risk their lives to save her, while others were frustrated by her Neutral Female role in a Recycled Script of Rukia's kidnapping arc, and came to view her worrying over Ichigo as a Most Annoying Sound.

Yasutora "Chad" Sado

• Base-Breaking Character: The Lost Agent Arc introduced X-Cution, a group of Fullbringers. Tite Kubo stated the arc was "Sado's Arc" but the fandom was split by Chad's coverage. While some fans were satisfied to see the nature of his power explored and explained, some fans were unsatisfied by his lack focus despite it being his arc. He was perceived as still generic and with a role that was much smaller than other character had in their arcs. Although the Fullbring reveal explained that Fullbringers arise from mothers who are attacked by Hollows, Chad's back story was not explored, leaving him less developed as a character than the rest of Ichigo's group.

Retsu Unohana:

• Base-Breaking Character: Her Yachiru characterization. While some fans don't like how she was turned into a Distaff Counterpart of Zaraki and served as little more than a way to further hype his character, others liked the Blood Knight, serenely Ax-Crazy angle, seeing as it would make perfect sense for everyone to fear her with the revelation.

Byakuya Kuchiki:

• Base-Breaking Character: Byakuya's death scene in the final arc split the fandom in half. His fans were horrified at his death and overjoyed to later learn that he had survived. However, the rest of the fandom disliked the outcome having felt the death scene was extremely well-written, but then rendered pointless by the revelation that he had survived; it was felt that the tension created by the killing of Yamamoto and his lieutenant had been removed in favour of restoring Status Quo Is God.

So I went over Fire Emblem Awakening's Base Breaking characters. Just my two cents about them. Broken Base is pretty big too but just the character section was exhausting enough.

Avatar AKA Robin - The debate about Avatar characters in general is a common one, but Robin in particular seems like the most well liked of the three (I guess four if you really want to count Mark).

Nowi - Already covered under Americans Hate Tingle.

Tharja - Plenty of people like her and dislike her for her relationship with Robin. Her relationship with her daughter is questionable (though, a very loud Vocal Minority acts as if present Tharja treats Noire just as poorly as Bad Future Tharja did despite evidence to the contrary). I'd say keep, but I'm not going to agrue if enough people think she can be cut anyway. I see a lot more people who dislike Camilla from Fates because they took a lot of Tharja's more questionable elements and made them even more prominent.

Chrom - Feels really vague and I rarely see people complain about him.

Lucina - Long ass entry that's mostly Hype Backlash, and she's already mentioned under that.

Cordelia, Henry, and Sumia - They're popular enough that there might have been more discourse about them when Awakening was released. Didn't pay much attention to the fandom back then so I don't know.

Donnel and Olivia - Both feel more like Tier Induced Scrappy entries since absolutely nothing about the characters themselves are mentioned.

Severa - Already covered under Americans Hate Tingle.

Yarne, Sully, and Kellam - Their entries aren't questionable but none of them are popular enough to qualify.

Female Morgan - I've seen people criticize child characters as a concept but Female Morgan herself? Almost never.

Spotpass Paralouge units - Seems more like a Broken Base thing.

Priam - Literally never see him talked about outside of debates about Ike's sexuality.

Emmeryn - Also more of a Broken Base thing.

edited 9th Apr '18 11:16:46 PM by 1337x

I'm inclined to say most of those are probably a cut, mostly because quite a few of those characters on that list are very popular (as seen in the Awakening artbook and the Fire Emblem Heroes poll), and I suspect that list only talks about a minority of the Western fanbase while not regarding the Japanese one at all.

I personally haven't seen any evidence that the fanbase is nearly perfectly split in half on these characters; most of what I've seen are either praise or wonking from a vocal minority.

edited 9th Apr '18 11:29:04 PM by dragonfire5000

I'm also for cutting based on 1337x's comments.

Also, Tharja's entry definitely has to go since she places pretty high on popularity polls too consistently.