Condemned by History cleanup thread

In my opinion, yes.

I think the following criteria must be in effect to qualify as DTD:

• It was massively popular at one point.
• Nowaday's it's no longer popular and virtually nobody likes it anymore.
• It's massively hated and/or made fun of by everyone.

For example:

• Iggy Azalea: DTD (was massively popular, now her music is flopping, people disproportionately hate her and everyone makes fun of her)
• Justin Bieber: Not DTD (was massively popular; people disproportionally hate him and everyone makes fun of him; but his music is not flopping)
• Nelly Furtado: Not DTD (was massively popular; her music is flopping; but people don't hate her, they just forgot her)
• Natalia Kills: Not DTD (her music is flopping; people hate her and make fun of her; but she was never really popular in the first place)
• The Beatles: The least DTD music act of all time (most successful band of all time; are still hugely profitable decades after they broke up; still loved and idolized by millions)

I have a few more possible suggestions for DTD music acts:

• Dru Hill/Sisqo (Huge in the '90s, had 3 top 10s and a #2 album, Sisqo broke out with a Top 5 debut single and a #1 follow up; 5x platinum album, platinum follow-up with no hits; nowadays Sisqo is remembered as the guy who did "Thong Song" and Dru Hill as his old band)
• Leif Garrett (a huge late '70s teen idol, but became a poster child for a fallen teen idol)
• Color Me Badd (3 smash hits, 5x platinum album, but they fell off the face of the earth quickly and are now mocked, did a song for "Striptease")
• Ike Turner (once a rock/R&B legend alongside his wife Tina, he is now known for domestic violence)
• Great White (had a brief stint of popularity in the late '80s, but are now remembered for the deadly nightclub fire at their concert in Rhode Island)
• Billy Squier (Three words: "Rock Me Tonite")
• Jerry Lee Lewis (He married his 13-year old cousin and allegedly tried to kill Elvis)
• Ted Nugent (he became a right-wing extremist)

edited 8th Jul '16 12:01:41 PM by LaptopGuy

Who is willing to finish up the Music section?

Based on LaptopGuy's guidelines, these are my tentative suggestions for the rapper folder of the hip-hop page (I don't know enough to tackle the other two folders).

• Keep: Iggy Azalea, Azealia Banks, Black Eyed Peas, CeeLo Green, Far East Movement, LMFAO, MC Hammer, Mystikal, Soulja Boy, T-Pain & Vanilla Ice
• Cut: 50 Cent, Akon, Arrested Development, B.o.B., DMX, Ja Rule, J-Kwon, Kreayshawn, Lil Kim, Mac Miller, Mike Jones, Nelly & Sean Paul

The only keeps I feel strongly about are Iggy & Soulja; the only cut I feel strongly about is Sean.

edited 9th Jul '16 6:10:29 PM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Here are my takes on the hip hop section:

• I agree that Iggy and Soulja are the only definite keepers.
• T-Pain I'd say should stay as well. He hasn't really been in the spotlight for years, but I'm not quite sure if he's been vindicated or not (I'd say no for now).
• Mystikal I'm not sure about. He was big but not quite as huge as Iggy or Soulja or T-Pain. He hasn't been relevant since 2002, and his crime was horrible, but I feel he is more forgotten than hated. I haven't really heard people talk about his fall from grace so much.
• Azaelia may be hated, but she isn't nearly as much as Iggy. She was never nearly as big and I feel she's just more polarizing and controversial than anything else. And people still take her side in her feud with Iggy.
• Hammer and Ice, while memory of them may have been reduced to one or two songs of theirs, those songs are beloved '90s classics now. I mean, everyone knows and loves "U Can't Touch This".
• The Black Eyed Peas don't fit IMO. There's no way that their older stuff is looked back upon less than before. I mean, "I Gotta Feeling" is still the classic it's been for ages. Also, their reunion song was only released through Apple Music. It's not lack of public interest as much as it is limited exposure. And one song without Fergie doesn't mean she's gone from the group.
• Cee-Lo just seems to have faded away. While those rape comments certainly didn't help his career in any way, I don't think that "Crazy" and "Forget You" are looked back upon any less positively than before. He seems more like a Tyson Zone kind of guy like Chris Brown.
• LMFAO just decided to go their separate ways. They announced their hiatus in September 2012, not long after their two big hits.
• Far East Movement were never really "big" to begin with and their album was a big flop. They're not hated, just a forgotten flash-in-the-pan.

edited 10th Jul '16 6:21:28 AM by LaptopGuy

Someone restored the Family Guy entry in DeaderThanDisco.Western Animation. I deleted it and left a commented-out note directing people here.

B.o.B. looks like a keeper. In just over five years he's gone from topping the Hot 100 to dissing Neil Tyson.

Squier's still making royalties from his songs being sampled in hiphop tracks ("The Big Beat" in 99 Problems, "The Stroke" in that Eminem song from Guitar Hero)

How about Rock Music?

• Keep: Most of the post-grunge bands (Saving Abel, Saliva, Hinder, Creed…), Gary Glitter, The Knack, As I Lay Dying, Smash Mouth (the bread incident…), Lostprophets (to my dismay), Nickelback, Limp Bizkit
• On the fence: Everclear
• Delete: Trapt (whose music only fell out of favor), Crazy Town (just a classic one-hit wonder), Evanescence

Filmmakers?

• Keep: Rob Schneider, Lindsay Lohan
• On the fence: Adam Sandler (his 90s movies are still well remembered)
• Add: Mike Myers, Seltzer and Friedberg, Brendan Fraser

edited 12th Jul '16 8:38:36 AM by BigBertha

• Depp's not DTD yet. Let's wait and see until after the scandal passes. People aren't 100% against him like with Cosby; some believe Amber Heard was lying. Also, I don't think his classic stuff is looked at less favorably. Maybe the 2010 Alice could count; for much of the same reasons as the 2005 Charlie and with the sequel bombing.
• If you want an actual DTD actor who's not yet listed? Brendan Fraser.
• Keep Nickelback for sure. They're a global laughingstock now.
• Delete Evanescence. People have mostly positive memories of them.
• Everclear I'm not sure. They faded fast but do people really "hate" them?
• Sandler is doing fine, though not as great as before. He's more polarizing than hated I think.
• Cuba seemed like a flash in the pan more than someone who hit the top and later crashed.

edited 12th Jul '16 5:19:34 AM by LaptopGuy

Eh, B.o.B. seems more like someone who just faded away rather than being outright hated. You could probably make a stronger case for keeping e.g. Nelly.

I was also wondering about the 2010 Alice; I think it could be safely added.

• Carrot Top. Is he DTD or was he always hated like that?

Also, some more music artists:

• Sean Kingston
• 3OH!3
• Jay Sean
• Kevin Rudolf

3OH!3 probably fit. Kevin Rudolf seems more like someone who faded away. Sean Kingston may or may not fit, but what happened to Jay Sean?

edited 12th Jul '16 8:26:29 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Carrot Top has always had an avowed hatedom. I'd actually say he's less hated now since he's decided to run with it.

Depp... definitely on his way, but you never know in Hollywood. I'd like him to be, and that's speaking as someone who doesn't buy (or really care about) whatever allegations. But at this point his name being attached to something is actually a detriment. But he shouldn't be added. Yet.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:27:44 AM by Larkmarn

Depp seems more like a Tyson Zone guy.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:31:03 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Here's a handy list of potentially DTD filmmakers: https://lebeauleblog.com/what-the-hell-happened-directory/

• Surely DTD: Val Kilmer (weight gain, going straight to video)
• Potentially DTD: Nic Cage (from Oscar-winner to punchline in only 20 years)
• Not DTD: Nicole Kidman, Jude Law, Michael Keaton

edited 12th Jul '16 11:04:29 AM by BigBertha

Nicholas Cage is almost more popular as a joke, though. He might be a better fit for Adam Westing.

I'm also not sure Depp is DTD yet but he's definitely getting there. He had another fairly big recent controversy by vociferously defending his much-panned turn as Tonto in the Disney Lone Ranger despite being only one-eighth Native American (by comparison, the guy who played the character in the '50s version was full Native American).

I'm leaning keep on Sandler; he moved his films exclusively to Netflix because that's the only way he could keep making money.

Another possible candidate I just thought of: Whoopi Goldberg. At least, the only things about her I ever hear anyone talk about are her tendency to appear in really bad movies and her bizarre personal behavior like defending Roman Polanski's actions.

edited 12th Jul '16 10:42:03 AM by HamburgerTime

How about most Former Child Stars? Edward Furlong sure has fallen hard.

Remember that WTH Happened blog I mentioned? I came up with a few criteria to rule which actors are DTD:

• Going straight to video
• Has been a Razzie contender
• Doing mostly Indie movies and/or TV work
• Critically reviled
• Starred in a bunch of box office bombs
• Their acting career has flatlined

An actor is not DTD if they're fresh off a major award (Emmy, Golden Globe or Oscar) nomination or win, even if they're long past their prime

edited 12th Jul '16 11:34:30 AM by BigBertha

I don't think we can consider an actor DtD unless their early work is also reviled.

As a rule of thumb, if the common reaction upon watching their earlier work now is more "remember back when they seemed promising? Shame how they turned out," and less "how did we ever think this hack seemed promising?" they're not DtD.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:09:33 PM by HighCrate

This might be a good argument for removing all creator-focused examples of Deader Than Disco. Indeed, "once had a promising career before it turned bad" is practically the definition of Fallen Creator; perhaps the lock on that article might be encouraging misuse of similar tropes.

I got a few more actors who could fit:

• Tyler Perry
• Shia LaBeouf
• Jamie Kennedy
• Steven Seagal
• Megan Fox
• Hayden Christensen

For directors, Seltzer and Friedberg are the most obvious omissions, but that was mentioned already. Joel Schumacher, perhaps?

Also for music:

• John Mayer
• Boy George and Culture Club
• Pussycat Dolls
• Boys Like Girls
• Grand Funk Railroad

For what it's worth, I've been saying for a while now that Fallen Creator probably needs a look as well. I actually wouldn't mind it being cut due to the misuse on that page.

If you're going to propose new examples, can you please expand on why you think they fit? To me, Jay Sean, Kevin Rudolf, John Mayer, Boys Like Girls, etc. are textbook examples of acts that simply faded away rather than being hated.

edited 12th Jul '16 1:58:13 PM by Spinosegnosaurus77

In my opinion Fallen Creator needs a scrubbing badly. It's got George Lucas, Brian Bendis and Elton John side by side with people like Mel Gibson, Woody Allen, and Roman Polanski.

I've just added Kilmer to DTD: Film.

Has anyone mentioned Wesley Snipes or C. Thomas Howell yet? Snipes went bankrupt and was sentenced to jail for tax evasion. The latter was a rising star in the 80's who's spent the last 25+ years in low-budget crap.

Vanilla Ice is definitely a keeper, because he went from having two top 5 singles and a #1 album for 16 weeks to bombing at the box office and failing to chart anywhere again. He's a punchline like Iggy and Soulja Boy.

Hammer? His influence on pop-rap can still be felt to this day, yet younger audiences only know his lowest-charting hit.

edited 12th Jul '16 3:51:27 PM by BigBertha

Also, here's a few comics professionals I think are at least borderline.

• Joe Quesada, former Marvel editor-in-chief. He was initially welcomed as a breath of fresh air after the disastrous Bob Harras administration that sent the company into bankruptcy, but around the middle of the aughts he built up an informal reputation as a tyrant who mandated story changes based on his own personal preferences rather than what actually made sense, most infamously retconning Spider-Man's marriage away. He was also known to get into fights with fans who criticized these developments. He was Kicked Upstairs in 2011 and has had very little media presence since.

• Rick Remender, former Marvel writer. Initially praised as one of the best things to happen to the X-Men line in years, cracks began to appear when he was given the A-List books Uncanny Avengers and Captain America to write. Controversies began fairly soon about these books' handling of female and minority characters, as well as some questionable statements Remender himself made of the subject of race; this culminated in a lengthy Twitter diatribe by Remender that infamously included a Suicide Dare ("Go drown yourself in hobo piss!") directed at critics of the aforementioned. Marvel de-emphasized his books in marketing after this, and he left the company in 2015 to go creator-owned. I'm not sure how well his creator-owned stuff does but the vast majority of his Marvel output is now Overshadowed by Controversy.

• Eddie Berganza, DC editor. I'm not sure much of anyone ever liked him, as he presided over several infamously bad stories such as the Sudden Downer Ending of Young Justice and longtime SBIH tenant Cry for Justice, but criticisms of him have reached a crux this year after numerous accusations of workplace sexual harassment have been made against him. He's become something of a mini-Cosby for comic fans after DC's highest ranking female editor was fired in a line restructuring while Eddie kept his job, and many fans are campaigning to give him the boot as well.

Does anyone have any opinions about the video game subpage? The most obvious keeper is Bubsy, whose cartoon pilot and final game are just plain awful.