A Single Unified LGBT Character Thread

Ye, if they've heard of the concept of genderfluidity before, read about it or met genderfluid people, that shows that it's a human thing as well. How else would they know about* / learn the term, if there weren't genderfluid people who came before them?**

* assuming they know the terminology. Of course there are many people who don't, but with so many minds, it seems more likely that at least one of them would have heard of the concept before. But hey, it is quite possible that none of them have.

** well okay, strictly speaking, one doesn't need to learn about the term or concept from another. After all, someone had to be the first person to say "I feel like both a man and a woman" or whatever, and I'm sure people have arrived at that conclusion (or similar ones) independently throughout history / the world. So one could go the route of such a character figuring out their identity completely independently, and possibly learning after the fact that they are not alone, that others have arrived at similar conclusions before them.

Edited by Twiddler on Sep 24th 2023 at 3:11:25 AM

Agreed with x3, and I will add that if the non-human in question is an actual character, especially one whose thoughts and perspective the reader is privy to, that alleviates a lot of the issues people have with Non-Human Non-Binary, namely the dehumanization and 'othering' aspects of clumsier executions.

Edited by Chortleous on Sep 24th 2023 at 8:21:54 AM

So i came up with a given name for the trans robot — Christopher. I haven't decided what, if anything, they might change it to later on. Christopher was assigned male at birth because of the human compulsion to gender everything male as the default unless something explicitly contradicts that, and because people categorised his voice as masculine, but they realize from a young age that it doesn't fit.

I recently had an idea that when Christopher eventually comes in contact with the main characters, them openly questioning gender makes one of the resistance superheroes, the side character Noah, realize he doesn't know what "feeling like (gender)" actually means and privately on/off questions if that means anything or if he's misunderstanding. Noah was born in victorian England and it's the very early 1950s now, so he has issues and it's a bad/uninformed era for questioning (plus his upbringing was what it was).

This kind of comes from my own on/off questioning because how am i supposed to be able to tell if i experience something differently from the majority, i can't get inside other peoples' heads and how am i supposed to know what kind of a "feeling" a gender is? Though my questioning is very occassional and i'm really pretty apathetic to it because i don't really have dysphoria, and my native language is completely genderless anyway. So who the fuck even knows?

I assume this means i'm allowed to write about a character questioning their gender? People say write about minority characters but don't write about being a minority you're not, but i haven't decided what Noah's conclusion is, and my own gender may be vague so...?

^note  (Being a vampire Noah may be undead. But Red Revenge's vampires are the same person they were before they died, so obviously Noah would have neen whatever he is the whole time)

^note (Again, there was one earlier robot in Red Revenge who was a cis man (evil, and dead before Christopher's birth), and there's going to be other robots sometime in the future some of ​whom are going to be male or female. Though most of them would propably logically be trans too because the humans default to labeling male, and if they label randomly it also has high likelihood of inaccuracy even if the robot is on the binary)

Edited by Nukeli on Sep 27th 2023 at 1:37:27 PM

What. I don't know how to answer a majority of your question, but like what I italicized sounds kinda idiotic. Sure, it helps to be the minority you're writing about but that doesn't mean you can't write about people who are different from you; that'll just hinder representation, which is crucial for like most minorities.

What I can say is just to do a lot of research and ask questions to people who are part of that minority about it (such as asking in this thread since it's LGBTQ+ focused).

Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Sep 27th 2023 at 9:11:13 AM

"Don't write about a minority you're not" is a hot take that sounds like an oversimplification of "don't write for a minority you're not" after several repetitions and losses of nuance. As long as you do your research and listen to feedback from sensitivity readers, there shouldn't be an issue. Writing characters who aren't just based on yourself is not only good for representation, it's a critical exercise to improve as a writer.

On that note -

General apathy and irritation towards gender is a good part of why I started describing myself as agender. That was several years before I determined that I can experience gender euphoria. I refrained from calling myself "trans" until relatively recently, because trans people I knew cared about gender as much as cis people in a way that I didn't. (I strongly recommend this video by Vi Hart, which was extremely resonant and influential to me.) Which is to say, that's an experience we can both relate to, and you can comfortably draw on it to write (at least some) trans characters regardless of whether you decide to name it part of your identity.

(I don't remember what your native language is offhand, sorry - I think you said somewhere in eastern Europe? - but you probably do have gender norms even if your language doesn't have gendered noun classes. English doesn't either, outside of pronouns. Social and grammatical gender can influence each other but they aren't directly related.)

"Don't write about a minority that you're not" is how we get LGBT+ authors forced out of the closet because they wrote an LGBT+ book before they came out themselves.

Yeah that "rule" sounds like an oversimplification and exaggeration of sentiments born out of some people writing about minorities badly.

" the side character Noah, realize he doesn't know what "feeling like (gender)" actually means and privately on/off questions if that means anything or if he's misunderstanding. Noah was born in victorian England and it's the very early 1950s now, so he has issues and it's a bad/uninformed era for questioning (plus his upbringing was what it was)."

Sounds great Noah would be an interesting perspective to explore.

Edited by Adannor on Sep 28th 2023 at 10:24:40 PM

x4, x3

What i meant and what the people who say it mean is "don't make the story about identity you don't know about".

x3

I'm finnish. Grammatical gender or gendered pronouns don't exist in finnish (and we all call each other "it" anyway). What i meant that there's no linguistical gender to feel uncomfortable about, or that other people need to be told about.

I do remember reading, at some point, something that suggested societies with gendered languages are more sexist (possibly because they think about each others' genders all the time?). I haven't gotten much shit for my gender-nonconformity, and we seem pretty egalitarian. Maybe it's related to the fact that until recently almost everybody was a poor farmer and the whole household did mostly the same work?

"Write what you know" is better phrased "know what you write", and that includes identities. Want to write an identity you're not? Do a lot of research, and line up sensitivity readers to call you out on your mistakes before you publish.

Agreed.

Where can you find sensitivity readers though? IK they're important but barely anyone brings up where you can find them.

Hello, I came here a while ago asking for help on how to reveal that a character was a trans woman, after a long time of procastination, I finally started writing the first chapter. I also detailed the character looking for something in the bag and finding a bag of estrogen according to the tip y'all gave me.

• "Vera! Take those bombs that Cero gave you!" says Raul. Vera's eyes widen "Okay!!" While Umbra kept shooting and dodging, Vera searches her bag, looking for various items, such as a lipstick, a makeup case, a small bottle of estradiol "I found it!!!"**

but I also wanted a scene where it was explicitly revealed that Vera is trans, I wrote a dialogue, but honestly, I think it's pretty bad.

• Bruno looks at them, laughing a little. "you thought you would go far, right?? Vice President Jerry left the place with most of the executives, Nora wanted to stay, you know how women are nowadays, they prefer to fight instead of washing their dishes, ha!!" Vera raises her eyebrow "hey!! That was sexist" she asks, with Bruno being startled by Vera's voice, ruffling her hair "What's that voice? I don't think you're a woman, huh!" Vera is furious with Bruno's statement "I'm a very proud trans woman, okay?! And it's not a backward old man like you who's going to change me!"**

Can you give me tips on how to improve this dialogue? And make it more Natural?

Edited by GoldenPillar on Oct 3rd 2023 at 9:38:12 AM

Just for context, Umbra is the protagonist and a Mercenary, Raul is Vera's younger brother and the brawn while Vera is the brains, and General Bruno is the most powerful Antagonist.

Umbra invaded the Warehouse to kill Jerry. Vera invaded it to take some photos because she believes she will get an internship by doing a scoop.

Bruno is renewing a contract between the Army and Nora's company.

Maybe with the context it will be easier to look for some natural form of this dialogue that I mentioned.

Edited by GoldenPillar on Oct 3rd 2023 at 9:48:08 AM

Ok take this with a pinch of salt because I'm cis, but can offer advice about making the dialogue more natural.

I suggest more "show don't tell" and breaking the dialogue down into separate lines. For example:

Of course, it depends what best fits their personalities. I like that confidence Vera shows, and you got Bruno's creepiness across well.

Hope that helps!

Edited by CalicoCaitSith on Oct 22nd 2023 at 3:24:14 PM

So, i am thinking of writing about someone thinking about assembling a polycule, but fearing being judged and outcasted as well as rejected by those they think of asking

How should i go about this

Well, what's the character like in general? Are they shy or more confident in everyday life? How do they interact with the people they want to be in a polycule with (and — more importantly — how do said people interact with each other, i.e. would there be jealousy)?

Somewhat shy, the environment is familiar but asking people to join a polycule isn't for them

As for the people they wanna ask out:

• at least one will be jealous, moreso seeking attention

• there's no guarantee of harmony between them, at least not at firs

• otherwise, they'll be fine

Does this description about a gay man's lack of attraction to women and him trying to explain if a woman was pretty or not makes sense?

Lack of attraction doesn't necessarily mean an inability to comprehend or describe attractive qualities to someone—as is, the cake analogy makes him sound kind of misogynist, unless that was the intent.

Oh whoops, I did not intend to make him misogynistic.

How would you describe lack of attraction in stories then? I'm an allosexual bi, so I didn't really experience lack of attraction to a particular gender.

EDIT: Got some help with some people on Discord and rewrote the passage. How does it sound?

Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Oct 30th 2023 at 2:43:17 AM

Tbh it's probably best to avoid comparing women to food. I know it wasn't your intention, but it can sound objectifying.

I'd write "He acknowledged they were beautiful, but in more of an aesthetic sense than an alluring one" or something along those lines.

~Calico Cait Sith

Me, an actual woman: Whoops.

But nonetheless, TY for your advice! Though, now I have like two things to say: 1) how does comparing women to food sound objectifying? 2) I had other women look over the passage in question a while back and they said it's fine, but didn't say anything about the food comparison out as being possibly objectifying, so how does that happen?

Well, personally the idea of being compared to food is gross and objectifying. Particularly since food is for consumption.

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 3rd 2023 at 3:05:07 PM

Presuming that by "how does that happen" you mean "how is it that some see it as objectifying and others don't", I have some ideas—but do take with a grain of salt!

My thought, in essence, is that it comes down to perspective and perception: different people will see different things in a given comparison, and assign different weights to the various elements of a given comparison. These being informed, I daresay, by the personal experiences, knowledge, mindset, and so on of the people in question.

(Note! That doesn't mean that those who see something as objectifying are "wrong"! Nor that those who see it as non-objectifying are "wrong". Simply that this is a subjective matter, and so perspectives will likely differ.)

No problem! And yeah not everyone will agree about the food thing, but some people don't like being compared to something that's meant for consumption. It's the same reason why it's considered a faux pas to compare POC features to food, even if it's well intentioned and meant to be a positive description; eg. chocolate coloured skin or almond shaped eyes.

This is especially true of meat, because sexual objectification is often described as "being looked at like a piece of meat".

I hope it didn't sound too harsh. Just putting it out there that some people find those comparisons uncomfortable. And being bi and allosexual myself, I can relate to the difficulty describing lack of attraction to a particular gender.

Edited by CalicoCaitSith on Nov 3rd 2023 at 1:51:28 PM