Relationship Critique Thread

With regards to Lihiri's family, their exact status isn't known, and she hasn't seen them in years. She's been depositing money into an account for them for years, and the Government might occasionally pass her letters ostensibly from her family, but there's no way for her to tell that her family actually receives that money or that the letters are actually from them, and one of the things that drives her into fighting back is the suspicion that she's just been lying to herself that her work for the Empire has kept her family safe.

As for why Nioba aids Lihiri instead of turning her in, she has strong beliefs about how the world and the people in it ought to be, and has long wanted to put those beliefs into action, but there aren't many causes around her that are looking for deaf soldiers. Protecting Lihiri gives her a sense of purpose that she's been missing and helps her start getting back in touch with the person she used to be.

By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.

I see. If her family isn't even on her government's radar it would certainly eliminate the possibility of them being used against Lihiri, which is always nice.

Sounds solid. Lihiri might end up doubting if Nioba wants to genuinely help her, or if she's just using her as an excuse to tussle again.

Harold Harlow is a By-the-Book Cop, a strict but loving father and an understanding, though ultimately bossy husband. He does not do drugs, not even alcohol, and frowns upon anyone who does. Many of his peers avoid Harold due to his strong sense of justice, which makes him a diligent and competent cop, but also judgemental and stern.

Katherine Harlow is a The Coroner, a bumbling if well-meaning mother and a passionate, if ultimately unruly wife. She's been addicted to alcohol ever since college and does her job out of a self-destructive obsession with the dead, which she can only cope with by drinking. Katherine is fun-loving and laid-back most of the time while also having a morbid sense of humour.

The two of them met during a case, and got married some years after. They had two kids, a girl and then a boy. Katherine tried staying at home from work to look after them, but it soon became apparent she couldn't stay away from her work, so Harold became a house-man.

Harold thought he could make Katherine get over her alcohol addiction. He couldn't. She wouldn't let him. That, aswell as her spending far more time at work than at home with her family strained their relationship.

One day, Harold travelled the subway with the kids, and there was an accident. The father managed to pull Kevin out of harms way in time, but their daughter lost much of her arms and legs in the crash. Even though Katherine never blamed Harold, he blamed himself enough for the two of them, and it made him unable to bear the existing problems of their relationship. The incident ultimately led to their divorce.

The two of them are the protagonists parents. Does any of this sound legit?

edited 16th Apr '17 5:52:30 PM by ilili

FeEeEeEeEeD mEeEeEeEeE mY bLoG

Not really. If Harold was strict as he was described, the relationship probably wouldn't have reached marriage, much less having kids. Their flaws would have caused whatever spark they had to die out, with the only way that this could work out would be that this is a first for both of them. Inexperienced people make more common mistakes and won't know what's good for them before suffering the consequences, and it's common for spouses that never had a crappy partner to think that they are capable of reforming their other half's flaws. I find difficulty believing they would still be in love with each other, because a true relationship isn't composed only of romantic moments. Consider how would they interact on a daily basis, not how they would react in situations found in romance novels. I find it more likely that married each other within a few months than having known each other for a few years, then they couldn't leave because they had a child. You never described what they find attractive about each other, because they seemed as opposite as it gets.

With so little background on how the Harlows progressed from meeting on a case to marrying a few years later, I have a hard time understanding how/why a strict, no-nonsense person like Harold would put up with Katherine's various addictions to the point of becoming a stay-at-home dad in order to enable her.

By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.

Thanks for the feedback!

I see. Makes sense to shorten the length of time before marriage to months. The two of them aren't supposed to have had many partners before each other, so they count as inexperienced. I'm not sure where you take the bit with the romance novels from, though. There are plenty of people in Real Life that end up together and married even though it seems like they by no means should be.

To elaborate on the attraction:

Harold seemed a pillar of stability that Katherine felt she needed in her life, a strong-willed man to anchor herself to. Perhaps she subconsciously thought that he could help her with her alcohol problem, but ultimately didn't want him governing her as much as she'd thought. Maybe she just wanted a counterweight to her energy, someone to bring her back to earth when she was having a bit too much fun. Also, he was tall, muscular and handsome, and Katherine found him quite visually appealing.

Katherine had a wildness to her that Harold found fascinating. Abiding by the rules and keeping strict control over oneself had always been his way, and now there was this free-spirited, fun-loving woman who was addicted to something, but still had a functioning career. Perhaps he wanted the gratification of taming this woman, but ultimately realized that he couldn't exercise as much power over her as he thought. Maybe he simply wanted a counterweight to his reservedness, someone to bring him out of his shell a little. She was also pretty, so there's that. Harold may be a strict no-nonsense guy, but why should that make him dislike pretty faces?

On why Harold was willing to stay home, he didn't do it just because he wanted to enable Katherine. He ended up liking the idea of being closely involved in his children's upbringing, since he wanted to instill them with values he felt their mother might neglect. It might also be important to mention that it happened at a time when Harold really needed a break from his police work.

On the point of "little background between from-meeting-to-marriage", well, that's just how it goes, isn't it? People meet, they are attracted to one another, they meet a few times more, they're in love, they get married (oh snap)... I don't mean to say it always goes like this, but is there really a problem portraying it this way when it's how some people in Real Life describe it?

edited 18th Apr '17 5:35:55 AM by ilili

FeEeEeEeEeD mEeEeEeEeE mY bLoG

Ignore these four words.

edited 28th Apr '17 9:37:37 PM by ThriceCharming

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Drake Vrom was the bastard child of William Vrom, the head of a family of dragon slayers. Inspired by stories of his father, he aimed to become like him. However, life was harsh on the guy. He became a fugitive after injuring a noble who was trying to rape a commoner, but also had to take care of his 8 years old sister. He now works as a bounty hunter in another country, but still lives by the ideals of chivalry. He lets go those who he believe are innocent, but this doesn't help set food on the table. His sister admired him the same way he admires his father, so always support him in his endeavors, despite often going hungry.

Lynette Egbertine is from a family of knights that served as bodyguards of the royal family. All members, regardless of gender, had to undergo harsh training. Lynette was shamed for having what was considered girly dreams, with only her elder sister standing up for her. A coup caused her to become the sole survivor of her family. Witnessing her sister's death, she developed survivor's guilt, which caused her to become an Iron Lady, not showing emotion and dedicating herself to become a knight, believing her past self to be weak.

They didn't start on good terms, first meeting when both were trying to catch a fugitive. Drake, after listening to the fugitive's side of the story, wanted to let him go, but Lynette follows the law to the letter. Eventually the issue was resolved by the princess, the royalty Lynette was protecting, who cleared the fugitive's name.

Due to the princess often interacting with the protagonist, who allowed Drake to live at his house, the two often had to meet. They spend most of their meetings bickering. As they slowly start to know each other, they start becoming friends. They trusted their back to each other, and would help when the other was in trouble.

A coup started by the antagonist forced the main characters to separate. After a few years and character development, they met each other again the same way the first met, fighting, though this time they didn't recognize each other under the heavy armor. Drake gave up on his dream on becoming a hero after losing his sister. He realized that in life there are always hard decisions he should make, not only for himself but for his loved ones as well. He still does good whenever he can, but prioritizes the well-being of those he cares about. Lynette got over her survivor's guilt and wanted to start living her life her own way, though her social skills were still rusty due to the years of being the Ice Queen.

Not having many friends since most of them are dead or not around, they often approach each other when they encountered problems or wanting a drinking partner. Drake acts as the typical awkward guy who Cannot Spit It Out. He is believes that it should be the guy who pursues woman, so he doesn't pick up on the hints Lynette gives. Lynette is more proactive, but doesn't directly asks him whether he wants to date due to being afraid of rejection. This goes on for months, and literally all their acquaintances are frustrated over their lack of development.

Even worse, they accidentally had sex when they got completely drunk. Drake wants to take responsibility by marrying her, but Lynette doesn't want a relationship based on him feeling responsible for an accident. This leads to thing becoming awkward between them, and they started avoiding each other. They only start becoming a couple when they decided to confront the issue face to face.

Is there any problem in this relationship?

The pinned thread links to here, but this seems dead?

Any of these threads can be revived.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Good to know. I normally don't like to necro dead threads, but I couldn't think of a better place to ask for critique.

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From first glance, Drake and Lynette seem to have a gender-inverted Brooding Boy, Gentle Girl dynamic going on. Drake possesses the idealism usually associated with the Gentle half of that dynamic and expresses it through a sense of chivalry that compels him to do what he thinks is the right thing, if only in a Knight in Sour Armor sort of way; Lynette, by contrast, displays most of the hallmark traits of the Brooding half, but interestingly trades the usual Byronic brooding and cynicism for an aloof stoicism that could alienate her from the world around her in much the same way. I also see that, rather than implementing the usual hurt-comfort mechanism to bring the two together, you instead opted to go for an initial antagonism that slowly grows into something more nurturing. Done well, I can see these two getting together by story's end.

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And now for my turn . . .

Alexandru Raducan is the son of baker and aspiring entrepeneur Simona and unemployed laborer Bogdan. Having spent the first ten years of his childhood growing up in Communist Romania, he developed an intimate resentment of poverty and the ambition to ensure it haunted neither himself nor those he cares about. He is the spiritual embodiment of what it means to be a Self-Made Man, utilizing his prodigious mathematical aptitude and quick-thinking with software and computer technology to pull himself by the bootstraps—whether by hook or by crook—from rags to riches.

Vera Vikentovna Morozova is also a child of immigrants, Russian-American police chief Vikenty Ivanovich Morozov and Russian-American nurse Galina Petrovina Morozova. Born with Photographic Memory and speed reading ability, Vera stands apart from the other triplets Lyubov and Nadezha by cultivating an ever-growing thirst for knowledge and understanding which compells her to pursue a career in science.

How Did They Meet?: Both Alexandru and Vera happened to have been spectating a particularly momentous rocket launch along the beach nearby the local Space Center. Both only meet after heated confrontations with members of their family—sister and father for Alexandru, the rest of the Morozova triplets for Vera. After Vera finds Alexandru writing complex mathematical equations in the sand, the two quickly become fast friends as they bond over their predicament.

What is the status of their relationship when the story begins?: At their story’s start, Alexandru and Vera are already in a relationship as they seek comfort and solace from a society inimical to them and their values. Flashbacks reveal how their relationship evolved from friendship at first sight while the story’s end peeks at their married lives among the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world.

Problems?: Whether it’s reneging on agreements already made or acting against their wishes or ambitions behind their backs, both Alexandru and Vera have experienced immense disappointment and betrayal by others multiple times in different ways.

Though his family—particularly his twin sister Ioana and father Bogdan—considered Alexandru the golden child when he was still small, meek, and dependent on them in Communist Romania, they began scorning, shaming, and denouncing him after the Raducan family defected to the United States and he quickly started pulling himself up by the bootstraps to the point where he didn’t need to depend on them as much anymore. Of all his most vocal critics, it was his sister and father who screamed, “Don’t tread on the toes of God!” and, “You didn’t build/do that! Nobody really ever built/did anything!” the loudest respectively. With no one to support him adequately, he felt truly on his own to remake himself into the self-made, rugged individualist he always wanted to be.

As he grew older, Alexandru eventually saw that Bogdan and Ioana’s sentiments were the norm in society rather than the exception, and he thus grew bitter at the ubiquitous sight of corrupt mediocrities rising to the top on the backs of their indentured betters. He even concluded that concepts such as compassion, charity, and even pity were merely excuses those same mediocrities used to justify bullying and stealing from their betters—people of ability and responsibility like himself. His bitterness was such that given the choice, he would rather resort to crime rather than the indignity of accepting the Almighty Dole.

For Vera, it was her mind that others resented most. Unlike the other Morozova triplets—Nadezhda had only her faith in God to guide her, and Lyubov possessed the short-term moral and cognitive compass of a rich narcissistic brat—Vera not only possessed a prodigious mind but a profound inner drive to cultivate it into something that surpassed alleged human limits. Her pursuit of greater and greater knowledge alienated both others from her but also herself from her own body, causing others to denounce her with questions like, “Who are you to know?” when she wasn’t forgetting to eat during long hours studying science textbooks no one her age should have been studying.

The worst bullying came from her sisters, who scorned and abused her intellect while demanding that she use that same intellect to serve their purposes. The constant cycle of others turning their backs on human reason and denouncing her for embracing it eventually led her to question how intelligent other people even were, and she sometimes caught herself questioning whether other people could truly be considered people or even human.

What Do They Want?: Fundamentally, both want respect. They measure others’ respect for them primarily by how others view their aptitude and treat their talents—specifically, they interpret others looking up to them in admiration and revering their talents like gifts as signs of respect while feelings of bratty entitlement are interpreted as signs of disrespect. The key difference between both Alexandru and Vera, however, is the nature of their abilities and the respect they seek.

For Alexandru, the greatest sign of respect someone can show him is sharing his pride in his own achievements and self-development. In fact, such admiration is a big part of why he fell in love with Vera, who was the first person to not only genuinely express vicarious pride and admiration in his achievements, but also attribute his achievements to his own effort and ambition instead of forces outside his control.

For Vera, the best way to show respect is to listen and heed her knowledge with genuine interest when given the opportunity to do so, and to neither scorn her intellect nor treat it as a mendicant would the State Dole. Alexandru was the first person to have not only expressed genuine interest in what she has to say and demonstrated the care to remember every detail, but also expressed gratitude for her sharing her intellect with him and actively sought out her knowledge and expertise.

Resolution?: By their story’s end, Alexandru and Vera are seen enjoying their new life together as both a married couple with a family of their own and as the de facto authorities running the world’s most powerful MegaCorp (as Chief Executive and Chief Research Officer respectively). They plan to use their status as among the wealthiest people in the world to replace the currently rotting society beneath them with a new one that better fits their ideals.

Other things to consider?:

• Their story takes place in an Alternate history where the Soviet Union (and thus the Cold War) never ended, and both sides are embroiled in a cyberpunk technological arms race. How could both characters’ backstories as immigrants from the Second World best be leveraged to drive character development? And what implications would said backstory have on their characterizations?

• Both Alexandru and Vera are meant to be equally great self-made figures in the setting and stand on the same footing in terms of aptitude. How best could I demonstrate each character’s strengths without diminishing those of the other?

• The idea of their relationship progression is that they draw closer together the further away others push them. How best not to overdo this?

• As their relationship becomes more positive and nurturing, their disposition toward mainstream society grows colder and more disgusted. How do I best keep them heroic/sympathetic?