I'd argue it was mostly due to Creepypasta's in general falling out during the early 2010s. Some are still popular, but they're not all the rage anymore... Although, the lack of quality with MLP ones in particular certainly didn't help. Especially with things like Sweet Apple Massacre. Ugh...

I mentioned this earlier, but yes, a major element here is that the Internet as a whole went through something of a cultural change over the 2010s. Before that, web culture was much bigger into creepypastas, deconstructions, and dark interpretations of things (see the old "Work X is actually the main character's dying dream" standby). Over the last decade, decade and a half, this mostly fell out of favor. FiM so happened to straddle that transition period.

That being said, I would note that big dramatic fantasy/science fiction stories never really went out of favor. The main distinction there would less how dark things get and more about how deconstructive or "edgy" the work is. Creepy deconstruction for the sake of creepy deconstruction isn't very popular anymore, but stories with darker or grimmer themes that take themselves more seriously are still popular, by and large. Take something like Fallout: Equestria, which definitely dives into much darker themes than canon does but isn't really there just for shock value or mockery, and which is still well-remembered today.

Edited by Theriocephalus on May 8th 2024 at 9:10:11 AM

The Conversion Bureau: The Chatoverse is the only TCB work we have troped but it is so well-known that it overshadows the rest of the TCB stories.

Furthermore, the anti-TCB group on FimFiction was founded because people who wanted to discuss the ethical and moral failings of the characters as well as criticize the setting were usually shouted down by the Fan Dumb of the TCB stories.

Edited by DialgaX on May 8th 2024 at 10:25:44 AM

And then there's Fallout Equestria, which is actually pretty good if you can accept the basic premise.

As I mentioned, Fallout: Equestria and stories of its sort are distinct from the shock horrors and creepypastas in that they're actually attempting to tell a story rather than just being dark and gory for darkness and gore's sake, so there's actually something to like and remember and think about besides just, you know, beloved characters actually being mass murderers or whatever. In the creepypastas' case, the issue is that there's little to no substance once you look past the dark imagery.

Very true, those other stories don't really have much to say beyond being subversive and dark. And while it is certainly possible to enjoy those in the moment, they don't really stick in the same way better written stories do. Well, apart from the gimmick itself, of course.

The Chatoverse and straight TBC works being discussed/troped, and how it led to the Anti-TBC group, is hatedom as opposed to them having sufficient fandom to qualify for Condemned by History.

Anyway, I didn't just mean un-substantive dark works like Cupcakes that went out of style. Even the good/substantive/constructively dark/serious works like Fallout Equestria and 'Pony POV Series that fell out of favor such nothing else of notoriety/success was made since the show got darker/more mature mid-series (POV got a lot less attention during it's climax, after the changes in the show solidified, when it should have peaked).

Was this in notable part due to Inverse Fandom Levity? Or other factors?

Looking at Equestria Daily, in the 2011-2012, timeframe, all the posts about The Conversion Bureau are about straight TCB stories. No anti-TCB stories or opposition to the stories are even mentioned in the posts. The only mentions of opposition to the stories is in the comments and they're minimal compared to the fans of the story.

At the risk of changing the topic, what would you all say are the most wholesome moments on the show? I know angst stuff is brought up a lot, so what are the most wholesome moments on the show?

I find this song to be very sweet and uplifting. :)

So straight TCB had enough popularity once to fit Condemned by History them. Thanks for clarifying. Last question on the subject.

The Conversion Bureau: Not Alone, which codified the anti-TBC genre, was first published June 2012. It was previously listed as the Genre-Killer for straight TBC, but it was removed in 2021 due to GK now having a 10 year waiting period. Is it fine to add it back now that it's been over 10 years? Or not as it wasn't the singular work responsible?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 9th 2024 at 6:54:29 AM

GK permits parodies and deconstructions, so on that front it should be fine. It's also been long enough. If Not Alone was the story that codified the anti-TCB genre, so that later stories have characteristics identifiable as originating from it in particular, then it makes sense to list it as such.

I'd argue The Conversion Bureau: Not Alone wasn't the singular work that killed TCB but that it got the ball rolling on anti-TCB stories that were more nuanced and less simple Hate Fics.

That and it showed that yes, there were fans of the longer anti-TCB stories as most of them prior to this were one-shots.

Actually, on the subject of cleanup, another question:

This was added to the Princesses' character page recently:

I'm not necessarily concerned with the Paper Tiger trope per se so much as with The Worf Effect. Do the Princesses get worfed? TWE requires that a character be a) established as a powerful and/or skilled fighter, and b) knocked down easily to set up someone else as dangerous or impressive. The second part, sure, but are the Princesses actually established as being powerful fighters in canon? As far as I can recall most of the times they defeat a villain in the backstory are specifically credited to their using the Elements of Harmony, which aren't any less effective when used by, say, the main characters.

TWE's Western Animation page also has this entry:

The bit about her being treated as a deity I'm pretty sure is factually incorrect, but otherwise I think that the list focuses so much on the "constantly loses fights" part that it fails to establish the "is established or described as being very strong" part. It's basically just a list of every time they couldn't defeat a threat in canon, which... doesn't really let a theoretical "but also they're depicted as being strong" element shine through. At the absolute least it needs some rewriting.

We have an MLP cleanup thread, you'd better ask there.

Aight, I'll copy it over.

Is there proof the wedding was set after "Lesson Zero" as opposed to jumping around the timeline? "Winter Wrap Up" and "Fall Weather Friends" was stated by Word of God to be out of order, and there's other things that make more sense if so.

I think episodes should be assumed to be in approximately chronological order unless proven otherwise. And that goes triple if you're talking about the first and last episodes of a season.

Yes, Lesson Zero is technically not the first due to Ro H, but Ro H was produced as part of season 1, so Lesson Zero was the first episode of season 2 proper. But in any case, it's very early in the season and establishes the new status quo for the season, so it's absurd to think that it happened *after* the season finale. This is practically like asking whether the season 1 premiere happened after Return of Harmony or not.

Post of the Week #3606

Posted by marston on 2nd Sep 2015 02:01:39 AM - Post #127593 in the new thread

Agreed, you can generally assume that the season finale happens after everything in that season, and that everything in a season happens after the season opener.

There may be some mild inconsistencies within the season due to episodes being shuffled around in production, and writers often not being aware of what other writers are doing (there is a reason all these episodes are basically stand-alone anyway), but generally, assume they are in chronological order.

I know it's unreasonable to assume it was set before something so much earlier in the season, I'm asking instead if it's impossible for Fan Wank. (I've seem plenty such for how the S4 primer suggested the whole series up till then was just one year.)

Actually, while the S1 premiere is necessary to set up "Return of Harmony", "Lesson Zero" and "A Canterlot Wedding" don't have the story arc of subsequent seasons that force them in order. What would meaningfully change about ACW if it was set before LZ/cause it to make less thematic/story sense?

Relating, from Trivia.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 2 E 25 A Canterlot Wedding Part 1:

• What Could Have Been: According to the writer this was supposed to be a one-shot, slice-of-life episode without any villain but it was rewritten as a two-parter with an adventure aspect.

This would explain a lot (the writing shortcomings, lack of integration/setup unlike later finales), but I can find no source for this. Anything? Thought on such?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 11th 2024 at 6:29:41 AM

I just realized that Lord Tirek and Storm King were voiced by actors who portrayed Sabretooth from X-Men. That's kinda neat.

Perhaps on the wiki? If there's no source, that can be cut.

Edited by Afrovenator on May 11th 2024 at 12:26:23 PM

YMMV.My Little Pony Friends Forever Issue 3

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Celestia's explaination for her *All-Powerful Bystander status (I.E. she wants Twilight to learn a lesson and trust her and her friends to handle problems, plus is willing to intervene as needed) certainly has merit. Except, in the show proper, there have been numerous times where pony's lives or homes were at threat (the scales of which varying depending on the situation but ranging from a few lives to all of Pony Ville or Cantalot, all the way to whole of Equisteria) where she still did not intervene despite the situation getting out of the Mane 6's control. Additionally, this mindset of hers, intentionally or not, put a TON of lives and such at risk on principle, as Twliight and Co often have trouble dealing with whatever threat or villain was a problem. On principle, it could be considered reckless not to simply solve the problem herself if she has the power, depending on the scope of the threat and what or who was at stake.

Typos aside, I believe whenever there has been such a threat that the Mane Six didn't have a handle on it, Celestia tried but was defeated, was indisposed, couldn't help without the Elements, or was too far away to know about it. Did I miss anything that would make the above valid?

• Memetic Loser: With all the talk of who is "Best Pony", naturally, fans also talk about who they consider is "Worst Pony". The "winner" of these arguments is usually Twist. Is she? If so why?
  • The Alicorn Princess who are not Twilight Sparkle (and by extension Flurry Heart, as she is just a baby and not even capable of being aware of her full surroundings) get this to a degree, due to often suffering *The Worf Effect by getting easily knocked out or defeated by whatever villain or big threat is showing up, especially in the two partner episode. It's to the point their power is nearly an *Informed Attribute. Despite this, they do get some moments to prove their power and accomplish things, although often only after being saved by the Mane 6 or others first.
  • Princess Celestia gets this worse of the other Alicorns. She has gotten hit with *The Worf Effect the most, having usually been the first to fall to whatever villain it is she faced. Just about everytime she intervenes directly, she gets easily beaten (of note against Nightmare Moon in the present, Queen Chrystalis, and even Cozy Glow, a child, at one point, among many other times). This and her tendency to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but give vague advice during certain threats(depending on the episode) has landed her with a reputation as a pushover whose existence is mainly to serve as canon fodder or even a *Red Shirt to demonstrate the power of whatever villain needs establishing. Even taking into account her feats of magic and victories in-universe prior to the series, her track record on-screen left much to be desired. I believe the Princesses are misuse as this is legit complaints not fan exaggerations, and fans still see them as powerful disagreeing with these moments means the opposite.
  • The Cutie Mark Crusaders got this in the earlier seasons to an extent, as they never could seem to get their Cutie Marks no matter how hard they tried. Their persistence only being met with failure (some times to the point of *Epic Fail) over multiple seasons only made this worse. However, this died off hard when they finally did get their Cutie Marks. Might be valid, thoughs?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 12th 2024 at 9:58:15 AM

To the best of my recollection, there is one instance where Celestia makes a conscious decision to sit the issue out, that being the third finale where she sends Twilight to the Crystal Empire and stays behind in Canterlot. In all other instances she's defeated, captured, or otherwise indisposed at the start of the crisis. It's not really a question of her wanting or not wanting to do things, she's just not typically in a position to deal with the crisis herself or tries to early and does not succeed.

(One could also make an argument for the dragon thing in "Dragonshy", but that seems to be a situation that everyone expected to be solvable through diplomacy, and that was indeed solved through diplomacy.)

Could you elaborate? I'm not clear what you mean here.

I mean Memetic Loser is when fandom portrays them as losers by exaggerating their loser traits. This does not apply to the Princesses as the entry is just canon loses not fan exaggeration, and fanon portraying them as badass/capable still far outweigh loser fanon such fans disapprove of/reject their canon loses rather than let it influence their opinion on them.

I've removed ML entries per prior ATT on them before as those I asked said they didn't count as it didn't explain the fan exaggeration.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 14th 2024 at 5:24:52 AM

Update: remembered the uselesstia tag. Is that or anything similar a widespread meme?

Realized Memetic Loser does apply to the Princesses as they got this despite mitigating context behind their defeats/inaction long before it became frequent enough to be legit Badass Decay/Informed Attribute, and was largely do to clashing with the Physical God fanon.

Thoughts?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 14th 2024 at 7:44:46 AM