Norse mythology thread

I've been reading the Volsunga Saga and Sigurd poems in the Poetic Edda both because of Fafnir's Bane and partly because it's a great story. The one thing that most fascinates me and is part of the plot and aim of Fafnir's Bane, is the relationship between the dwarven smith Regin and his human adopted son Sigurd.

Did Regin love Sigurd as a son and become corrupted by the gold, leading to attempted murder, or did he only pretend to love him in a similar way as Mother Gothel in Tangled did for Rapunzel? Was he only acting like he loved Sigurd so that the boy would have good feelings towards him and kill Fafnir for him, or was it more complex than that?

edited 16th Jun '13 1:50:18 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

I think Regin did love him, in a gruff kind of way. Though the gold got to him later on and he used him for his own purposes. Though I like to think Regin was regretful for what he did in his final moments.

Also, Tolkien's unfinished prose poems on Sigurd are fantastic. There's a good deal of what would become Turin Turambar in him, but it's a good work if you can enjoythe writing style.

Turin is associated with Kullervo more than with Sigurd in my mind, although there are similarities. And I'm going with the "love" interpretation in Fafnir's Bane. Strangely, Regin's dwarvishness is hardly ever mentioned, even though he turns up in the Dvergatal.

edited 15th Jun '13 11:22:19 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Rather interesting, considering he seems to be written at least somewhat sympathetically, considering their selfish evil reputation in the literature.

Though most texts give them some respect in that the dwarves can create things even the gods could never make, and their weapons have saved their collective rears on more than one occasion.

He is also more complex than the other dwarven characters in Norse myth.

On Writer's Block, I've posted a draft of Fafnir's Bane, the story mentioned in the OP. It's my own steampunk post-apocalyptic take on the Sigurd story and the Sigurd/Regin relationship:

Here it is if you want to read it.

edited 16th Jun '13 5:10:30 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Oo, sounds interesting. I will at that.

@Dark: Could you also comment on it there as well?

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

What's interesting is it's only the Poetic Edda which gives the reader an indication of what the relationship between Regin and Sigurd was like.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

It's interesting to compare the two. Poetic is more fragmented, though robably contains the closest to the genuine mythology, whereas the Prose is more consistent but has clear Christian tampering.

And to thinkthat's allthat was written down. Imagine how many works were lost over the years or just left to vanish into the ether.

edited 17th Jun '13 5:49:04 PM by Darkabomination

Yeah.

What would you like to see in a Sigurd adaptation? What new twists would you like to read that haven't been done before?

edited 18th Jun '13 6:28:14 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Play up the interactions with Brynhild. I think she's an interesting character who gets less development than she deserves and meets a really crappy end.

I got the impression that yes. Reginn raised Sigurdr for his own purposes. Note that whichever it was, Reginn was definitely raising him with the intent of getting him to kill his brother, which doesn't particularly suggest that he was that big on family values.

Well, from a Norse perspective he was probably a very evil bastard for wanting to kill your own kin. Then again, he became a cursed demon that needed killing. In the end, I think it was both growing affection and greed, it's hard to say which won out.

@Dougsh: It's definitely a very complex relationship that can't just be boiled down to one or the other. I think he loved him but the gold corrupted him.

Tangent, but I wonder if Tangled got part of its inspiration for Mother Gothel and Rapunzel's relationship from Regin and Sigurd? Or, more likely, from Mime and Siegfried in the Wagner opera? Evil adoptive parent guilt trips young protagonist ("Look what I did for you, how can you be so ungrateful?")into complying with their demands. Protagonist is very sheltered as a result of upbringing by said adoptive parent.

@Dark: That's a good idea. Have you read Melvin Burgess' Bloodtide and Bloodsong? They're the only two other science-fiction adaptations of Volsunga Saga I know of other than my own. Searching "Bloodsong" reveals there's a lot of mention of Bryony (Brynhild's equivalent in that book).

In my book Brynhild's called Hildur* and was imprisoned for murder.

Also, isn't there a theory that one of Hreidmar's two daughters (Lyngheid and Lofnheid) was Sigurd's maternal grandmother? Now THAT would be something to see- a part-dwarf Sigurd!

But that creates a problem. How would I explain why Regin didn't tell Sigurd who his grandmother was? It's very unlikely that he wouldn't know his own sister married a human because it's his sister, not some second cousin twice removed. Scandal is a bit cliche. So what reason could he have NOT to say, "Sigurd, your grandmother is my sister, Lyngheid"?

• from Brynhildur*

edited 29th Sep '13 4:14:23 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

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edited 19th Jun '13 3:06:38 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Well, it's an interesting concept. But I think the line of Odin would be too proud to have children with dwarves. Heck, they only mated with the strongest and bravest they could find, both men and women alike.

For instance, even by Norse standards, Signy is hardly weak.

Poor Signy, seeing her father and nine of her brothers killed in front of her . I'd want revenge too. BTW, are there any actual half-dwarves in Norse mythology/heroic literature?

And IMO, the idea of a half-dwarf Sigurd is funny to me and I can't understand why. Maybe because elves are seen as the more "beautiful'' race, while dwarven women are also often depicted with beards.

edited 20th Jun '13 6:58:09 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Well, other than being some occasional phantom or spirit of good luck or warning, the Ljósálfar rarely pop up aside from the odd Saga.

In contrast, the Dökkálfar have some more notable roles.

And yeah, Signy had it pretty bad and is quite the woobie. Same for Brynhild and Gudrun. The rule seems to be that if your a human girl in Norse mythology with a name and personality, you're going to have a crappy life.

edited 20th Jun '13 7:57:48 PM by Darkabomination

@Dark: The only one I can think of right now (half-elf not dwarf) was Skuld,Hrolf Kraki's sister. And there's Volund the "king of the elves."

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Still haven't gotten to that one, I heard it's pretty interesting.

Even if romanticized, William Morris's versions of some of the sagas are nice to read.

I've probably been spoiled a bit on some of the more flowery works from the Middle-ages, but many Norse translations are a bit too bear bones for me.

edited 20th Jun '13 9:24:41 PM by Darkabomination

Back to the topic; any tips on how I can explore the fact that Sigurd is committing fraticide on behalf of his foster father?

BTW, I've always seen Regin as a sort of similar character to Thorin in The Hobbit.

And another thing; I remember reading a blog entry which suggested that the Volsungs as a clan were Swedish (from southern Sweden) in origin.

edited 21st Jun '13 12:09:29 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

I'm not sure on that. Though strangely, Sigurd didn't have any negative consiquences about killing his foster father's brother. You'd think he'd have an anti curse or or Regin would get punished, but I guess if not if said brother is a demon.

But yeah, you could play up the family ties and could put in some lingering feelings between the brothers to make them more relatable.

I'd also add some conflict with Regin 's gold lust. Basically, a three-sided inner conflict where safety and love for his foster son war with some vague affection he still has for Fafnir. However, his lust proves his undoing as both loves are ignored in favor of greed.

Sigurd realizes what the curse did to him and believes that it destroyed what Reginn was. Reluctantly, Sigurd mercy-kills Reginn from what he sees as becoming a monster worse than his brother given that the Eddas state that he was very wise and had a dark heart.

So possibly give the whole thing a more sympathetic and tragic spin.

@Dark: Good ideas. And isn't there something about Hreidmar being the King of Dwarves? That might be from William Morris' Sigurd The Volsung, actually.

Here's the song that comes to mind whenever I think of the whole Fafnir/gold subplot. The song from the end titles of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey.

edited 21st Jun '13 5:35:54 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

On the subject of elves and Skuld: I find it very significant that Hrolf Kraki's sister was called that. The word skuld means a debt, guilt, blame or future (she who is becoming, that which shall be) Skuld was sent to live with her father as a baby after her father broke a promise he made to visit her and her mother in three winters' time. In a way, she is the unpaid debt her father owed.

Regin, btw, is/was used as a name in parts of Denmark and in the Faroes. A lot of Old Norse names are still used in Scandinavia, some very unusual to English speakers. I've never heard or come across any women named Skuld in searching for Old Norse female names. Seems like the saga character is the only woman in Norse mythology/legend other than the Norn and Valkyrie with that name.(maybe because she's too much of a villain to name your child after?) That said, Skuld is a very unusual name.

edited 23rd Jun '13 1:13:19 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

That would be like naming your kid Hel. Fragments of tradition and lore still survive to this day if you take the time to look. Heck, the Germanic tribes carried a lot of the stories orally for quite some time after mass-conversion to Christianity though there's some differences.