Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves

No mention how they've got a guy named Chris playing the goofball leader?

That's a fair question, I do think.

Such introspection isn't always accurate, but I think that my reason is this: I want to invest in the fantasy setting and story, to keep up willing suspension of disbelief—and having the movie repeatedly go: "This is all fake. None of it is real. MAAAKE BELIEEEVE!" feels like it might undermine that.

I won't say that it's impossible to pull off such a story, or even to have such a story that I might like, but it's not what I'm looking for in a Dungeons and Dragons movie.

And perhaps there's an element too of something that Zeromaeus said: That the tabletop game already exists—and indeed, if I want to, I can watch such a game being played, I believe! I don't need a new movie for that.

But conversely there aren't all that many movies simply set in a Dungeons and Dragons universe. (That I'm aware of.) Let alone ones that look as good as this does!

Just seen the trailer

-needs gnomes in tall pointy gnome hats

-loved the Mimic!

So, I checked this trailer out to confirm something:

Apparently, the clothing Hugh Grant is wearing is very similar to the clothes that former WCW and WWE (and currently AEW) wrestler William Regal used to wear...and Regal himself called Grant out for it on Twitter.

He's also apparently done something like this before with Grant way back in the 90's.

Not really sure if he legitimately has beef with Hugh Grant or this is all just a big joke....but damed if Grant's robe doesn't look like the one Regal wore a little.

As for this movie, it looks fun. We'll have to wait and see if it is fun, but it's off to a good start with that trailer.

It's kind of funny you posted that because I know you are an The Order of the Stick reader (which is the source of my knowledge about D&D) and when I saw Hugh Grant's character, my first thought was that he was a dead ringer for General Tarquin.

I'll also say that the trailer made the movie look like a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to it. I tried watching Vox Machina (which is one of the other things I thought of when watching the trailer) but the gore was a no for me.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 2:55:18 AM

I predict Mindflayers will turn up somewhere for pure scariness

I was wondering if one of the designers is a fan of that Webcomic, because that overweight red dragon was also flying with tiny wings.

Edited by Kaiseror on Jul 22nd 2022 at 5:00:20 AM

Well, that trailer looked fun! Very reminiscent of the vibes of the D&D campaigns I've watched (and the one one-shot I played). I'm cautiously optimistic!

I guess it's a difference of perspective to me then. I don't see it as "This isn't real. There are no stakes". But that the game in of itself is real and matters to the characters, even if it's in their own heads. They feel elated and successful when they pull something off. They feel sad and upset when something goes wrong. The matters of a story aren't with if the events depicted are real or not, but what the characters get out of the things that happen.

Like, "It was all a dream" is a cliche trope that genuinely ruins a lot of movies, but there are stories where that can work perfectly fine because the events of the dream have meaning and value. Take, Princess Bride for example; it's explicitly all a story told to a child in his bedroom but that doesn't mean we don't care about Wesley or Buttercup in of themselves? Particularly since the child's character arc is from indifference to actually enjoying the story.

I guess my worry about it would be... Could this film have just been named "Honor Among Thieves" and stood on it's own as an entirely independent property from Dungeons and Dragons?

I guess what I see as core to the appeal of Dn D as a property to be adapted is that *YOU* can be the heroes. 'You and your friends can go on the adventure' is the fantasy the game sells to you. It's what I see as the absolute most essential element to what separates Dn D from other fantasy properties and what I'd personally look to wanting to adapt to whatever medium I was moving it to.

And if that *isn't* the core to what Dn D is to be adapted, what *is* the core element? Particularly the core element that separates Dn D from... say, Stardust, Princess Bride, or Lord of the Rings?

I partially also see it as franchise establishment. This movie is already tentpole-ing a tv series and they want to spin this off into a number of other works. I feel like this establishes the face of a future series and, if we don't have the concept of a game or players or anything TTRPG related, we probably never will.

Edited by InkDagger on Jul 22nd 2022 at 6:49:35 AM

Pretty sure I saw a Gelatinous Cube in the trailer, which means I'm 100% going to see this. The GC is my #1 favorite D&D monster, second being the Flail Snail.

To be fair, there are works of fiction set in D&D settings that can be considered "Dungeons and Dragons fiction" with no meta-narrative.

The most obvious example of this would be something like the Drizzt series.

Though to be fair when I read the Dark Elf Trilogy in my head I kept imagining it as an evil campaign that got horribly derailed by one player trying to be a good guy.

Technically that is an actual setting, Greyhawk, it's just been "generic D&D" for so long that people have forgotten. And yeah, this is pretty clearly set in Greyhawk. Someone mentioned seeing an Underdark city.

I still wish we'd get a movie in one of the more esoteric settings—I would love an Eberron show written by Keith Baker—but Greyhawk was always going to be first. It looks good, and if it does well maybe it will open things up for the other settings.

Pretty sure this is supposed to be set in Faerun and Wikipedia's backing me up (think I saw at least one Red Wizard in the trailer) which, admittedly, is probably right behind Greyhawk in terms of being the "default" D&D setting. And yeah, in response to some of the earlier comments in the thread, there've been literally hundreds of novels set in the Realms alone (discounting other settings and other forms of media) that don't have any sort of metanarrative element or real-world framing device and as someone first introduced to D&D by the novel lines, it seems a little strange to suggest that a movie would have to have such a thing at all. D&D fiction hasn't always been good, but it has a long and storied history.

Edited by MasterGhandalf on Jul 23rd 2022 at 7:53:35 AM

Oh damn, I always mix up Greyhawk and Faerun. Which is the one that has a contract where WotC has to publish at least one book in the setting every year?

Icewind Dale, Waterdeep and Neverwinter are in Faerun. Faerun is in the Forgotten Realms setting.

I've never been a D&D player but the movie looks like fun. I did used to page through my older brother's Ravenloft books when I was a kid, so hopefully this does well and we can maybe get a Ravenloft spinoff.

Sure—I can see that working. But, for myself, I think that I would be disappointed by it.

If I go to see a fantasy movie, chances are that what I want from it is the fantastic narrative and setting.

That said, what you describe could work for me as a sub-plot within a larger work, a work in which I'm already invested in the non-fantasy characters, and in which the fantastic elements aren't part of the reason that I became interested in the work.

I hear you, but I do disagree, speaking for myself.

To my mind, we already have that in a variety of such adaptations—there are video-games and game-books and so on.

[edit] You say, if I'm reading you correctly, that the core of D&D is the communal tabletop experience, and thus that said experience is important to be adapted.

It seems to me then that this is analogous to saying that the core of any video-game is the interactivity—the inclusion of the player—that it provides, and thus that this interactivity or player-inclusion is important to be adapted. That it's important that an adaptation of a video-game include in some way a reference to there being a player behind the game—rather than adapting only the narrative within the game. [/edit]

For me, it's the fantasy elements specific to Dungeons and Dragons—or rather, some subset thereof (since there's far too much to be feasible to adapt in a single movie-sized work).

Hence my getting excited about seeing classic D&D monsters (and at least some locations, I think). And indeed, what looks to be a fairly classic-style D&D party.

I'm pretty confident that you're right, indeed! ^_^

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Jul 24th 2022 at 11:55:34 AM

sir Ian Mc Kellen for the wizard Elminster!

I know the books don't have a meta narrative. They're set within the various Dn D universes.

And, no, the film isn't in Greyhawk. Some of the earliest concept art and plot descriptions cite the setting to be Neverwinter. Faerun and the Forgotten Realms would make sense as it's been 5E's primary setting. Best to go with what's familiar to the audience you're attracting and 5e has *exploded* the popularity to even make a high budget movie possible.

Well, we have The Gamers for that.

Neverwinter is Forgotten Realms. Specifically Neverwinter is a city in Northwest Faerûn, Faerûn being the continent that is the focus of the Forgotten Realms setting.

So basically, you said that this movie was either in the Forgotten Realms, the Forgotten Realms or the Forgotten Realms.

I'm... aware of what I said? I didn't speak of those things as separate entities but as a combined package?

I know that Faerun is the continent and "Forgotten Realms" is the branded setting name. I've played in multiple Dn D Campaigns set within the Forgotten Realms. Neverwinter, Water Deep, and Baldur's Gate are the major iconic cities of the setting. It's also particularly a lot more High Fantasy/World of Adventure "WE HAVE FUCK TONS OF MAGIC EVERYWHERE!" compared to some of the other settings on offer. The Gods are also kinda more prominent and active compared to others, least to my understanding anyway.

I'm confused what you're actually coming for me over?

The way you worded it made it sound like you were referring to Neverwinter, Forgotten Realms and Faerûn as seperate settings, mostly because you were replying to a comment about Greyhawk which is both the name of the setting and a city/castle within said setting. Granted I read your two sentences as being combined rather than seperate statements so I read you saying "Neverwinter. Faerûn and the Forgotten Realms" akin to something like "New York, America and Earth." Even saying "Faerûn and the Forgotten Realms" feels weird to me since the two are practically synonymous with each other (I'm aware there are novels and adventures set outside of Faerûn such as Chult in Tomb of Annihilation).

Edited by Shaoken on Jul 27th 2022 at 9:17:58 PM

I think that it's something akin to saying something like: "Serbia—and Europe at large— ...". i.e. The first is specific and given more focus in the sentence, while the latter is broader and given less focus.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Jul 27th 2022 at 2:23:29 PM

This is exactly what I intended by the way I phrased it. I would also point out that "Neverwinter" ended with a period, not a comma. "Faerun and the Forgotten Realms" was the start of the next thought. I probably could have added a word in between to break it up but I didn't think I needed to.