Shoehorning in the ensembles

The roles in The Hecate Sisters are an alluring young maiden, a matronly mature mother, and a wise old crone. I haven't played it myself but does The Legend Of Zelda Oracle Of Ages And Seasons really count? I know Farore has knowledge but the crone has wisdom from having lived a long time and she's probably bitter.

The Zelda oracle games are the page images on The Three Faces of Eve.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I know that but do they also count for The Hecate Sisters? It seems unlikely that an example of The Three Faces of Eve would ever overlap with The Hecate Sisters and I don't think this is an exception.

There was a long argument in the Image Pickin' thread about their looks, but I do not know about the example itself.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Weirdly, the Four-Philosophy Ensemble trope page currently encourages shoehorning:

Is this text safe to delete then?

edited 2nd Sep '14 7:52:44 AM by Kaleidoscope18

Would you like to eat my candy paws?

Three Faces of Eve and The Hecate Sisters cannot both be the same group of three. The component characteristics are different:

• Eve is 1) Child — innocent and childlike; not sexual at all, 2) Wife — calm, mature, and thoughtful, a good life partner 3) Seductress — overtly sexual and possibly sexually predatory.

• Hecate is 1) Maiden— Budding or impending sexuality, may be naive or curious 2) Mother: maternal and fruitful sexuality, and 3) Crone — sexuality has been left behind with age, wise and/or cynical.

You can't have all six of those characteristic sets in three characters.The same character might qualify for both Mother and Wife, but a character who fits Crone (from Hecate) can't be any of the ones from Eve, and one who fits Child (from Eve) can't be any of the ones from Hecate.

edited 2nd Sep '14 8:29:33 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I'd say that text should be taken out and left out of Four-Philosophy Ensemble based on the first line, "This is a trope applying to the dynamics of groups of four." This doesn't look like Five-Token Band which is really just a token band.

That text makes it sound like it's describing four different character tropes, with the ensemble trope just being "an ensemble or group with all four character tropes".

An ensemble problem I've noticed is more than two in a duo. Particularly I've seen this in Tomboy and Girly Girl. Usually it's multiple feminine characters contrasted to one unfeminine one.

edited 1st Oct '14 9:15:57 PM by lexicon

Anyone still interested in this? I just cleaned a bunch of examples out of the Sensitive Guy and Manly Man wicks. They were only ones I recognized and there were over a thousand so there's probably a lot of bad ones still out there. Some were trios.

I did some re-cleaning of The Three Faces of Eve. People still want to say there's a mother in there. It's as if the only thing to do to stop it is renaming it to Child Wife And Seductress.

I have a question. The Hecate Sisters says, "Even though they are the same being, they seem to know and think different things, so they bicker." Does that mean that an example can be one person? Some of them say one person is all three including the most recently added. One says the individual changes but others are technically maidens while still managing to be mothers and crones.

I've been doing more cleaning of Duo Tropes that refer to trios. Going through Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy I've noticed that in some examples the man wasn't feminine at all, just not as tough as the woman. Just because she's strong it doesn't make him not masculine.

The Hecate Sisters can be one person, if that one person is three people, and those three people are one person. It's a thing that happens with the trio sometimes, and it's confusing and complicated, but it's a common way to portray them.

Three separate people who are at the same time, one person. It tends to involve magic, and/or religious stuff or both.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

There seems to be a lot of misuse on Four-Temperament Ensemble. Much of the misuse is Zero Context Example but some of it plugs the characters into the roles as best it can without saying how the temperaments balance each other out and are complementary to each other.

There are also groups of Five or Six listed, with people doubling up on the temperaments doubling up or outright skipping people in the group.

Example:

If anything Haruhi has a Five Man Band dynamic going on with the twist being the Lancer is the MC, it is certainly not this.

edited 1st Nov '15 1:33:16 PM by Memers

I think having a FTE in a group of five characters is only really allowed if the 5 is a Sixth Ranger and joined them a good chunk into the narrative. Something like is a huge shoehorn.

edited 1st Nov '15 1:45:23 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Yeah K On would be a Four-Temperament Ensemble till Azusa joins after the first year of school, in which it stops being an example.

A lot of them are just putting any group and labeling them as one of the 4, or cherry picking 4 people out of a cast of 30 and labeling them that yeah no. At most any group of 4 in a larger cast needs to be some kind of Clique to be this and almost always seen together.

I've deleted the examples I could find that were doubling up on temperaments in film. Pretty much all of it was lacking context.

If no one has a problem with it I want to remove Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from the example list and page quote because apparently Raphael is phlegmatic but that doesn't fit "cool, but rude" "throw the first punch" or "got the most attitude" at all. Phlegmatic is calm, humble etc.