you mean "Film —- Animated", not just "Film", right?
No, the other one.
Depends on whether Film is separated in Animated and Live Action or not. If it's not, Film is the correct one for both, to my understanding.
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I would say that if there's only Film and Western Animation, animated films should go in the latter category to fit with namespacing rules. If there are a lot, the folder could be soft split.
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That's just postponing the problem for later. Pages where the "Film - Animated" category is missing despite exemples fitting just mean that nobody has bothered creating the category there yet. If you're going to move exemples around anyway, you should create the "Film - Animated" category.
It's the "correct" one, created for one purpose only : end the "Film or Western Animation" debate once and for all.
That's actually against the official categorization rules. Western animated films go in Film—Animated. I'm actually not sure whether that covers Japanese films and the like, though.
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Those films are very few (those I know of I can count on one hand, unless you include the likes of Avatar).
But are we defining "Film" as having a theatrical release? If so, several releases by Disney and other American companies would fit, but not the sequels which would have to go under "Western Animation". Or if we include direct-to-video under Film, what do we do with Japanese OVAs? It's awkward to separate them from the Anime folder, especially when the rest of the series is there.
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Even if you ignore OVAs, I don't remember seeing ANY Japanese animated films with theatrical releases being placed in the Film category.
edited 23rd Aug '12 11:54:50 PM by Techhead
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In my opinion, Western animated films go in Film/ as do their entries on trope pages. Eastern animated films could go either way.
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Except that's not policy. According to policy, Western animated films are namespaced to WesternAnimation/ and belong in Film—Animated (or, at the least, Film) on trope pages. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but that's the way it is.
In uffish thought
Where is the policy about them being in a different category on trope pages? As far as I can tell, it's something that is done differently across the site, and pages which have the separate category for Film — Animated are now being taken as policy when it makes more sense for the works to go in the Western Animation folder, to my mind. Is there a page or post we can go by to make things consistant?
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Bumping now because I was travelling last week.
In any case, while that does highlight a possible ambiguity with the rule, it is still not a reason to ignore the rule when it comes to animated movies that do have theatrical releases.
Besides, if we put anime movies in the film section, why not put manga comics in the comics section? If it were up to me there would be no "anime and manga" folder in the first place. Almost every other folder relates to which medium a given work is from. Manga and comics aren't really works from different media, just works from the same medium but for different countries. The "anime and manga" folder is the only folder for which we make such separations just because of the country of origin, and for that matter Japan is the only country whose works we separate from works from other countries. But so long as we have that distinction, why not apply it to all media from Japan?
edited 3rd Sep '12 10:47:52 AM by HiddenFacedMatt
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If it makes sense to have anime and manga in seperate folders on a page, or to have a seperate folder for anime films, I don't think there's any rule saying you can't do that. Just like there's no rule saying you can't make a "Comic book superheros" section if it makes sense to have all those examples together for some reason, like here.
No, the other one.
I think the main thing with keeping manga and anime in the same category is that there are tons of series that exist in both, with largely the same tropes. If you compare, say, western comics or video games with their film counterparts, the different is almst always much greater.
edited 21st Sep '12 8:30:13 AM by AnotherDuck
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I'm not sure what the official rules are on pages having unconventional sorting of examples, but I think it's something we should generally avoid, since people expecting to find their example in the folder they're used to looking in might get confused by not finding it.
As I already pointed out, if a series spans multiple media, reference could be made in one folder to the corresponding entry in another. And again, it's not like anime and manga are the only media this occurs between.
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Bumping after a couple weeks, because I feel the subjects raised weren't adequately addressed, especially the part about the blurred distinction between animated films and live-action ones.
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Well, typically, films that use both live action and animation are just considered live-action, though I'd imagine it mostly depends on the proportionality of the two.
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I was about to ask about this topic in FAQ, but then I saw it here. I find it very frustrating to not know if an Animated Film will be in Film or Western Animation. I support a massive cleanup for this, and am in agreement with Hidden Faced Matt. Animated Films should go in Film since Film can be split into "Film—Live Action" and "Film—Animation." Also, I usually think of Western Animation being for TV shows as the animation equivalent of Live-Action TV.
If anyone after this post disagrees, we should make a crowner to decide which convention to use. Otherwise, we should go by the discussion title. Once we reach a consensus, trope pages not using the convention should be posted here for cleanup.
I'm not quite sure what should be done about Anime & Manga. I've seen some pages with Anime films in Anime & Manga, and others in Film.
edited 30th May '13 5:53:58 PM by Rethkir
Image Source. Please update whenever an image is changed.Bump. Any opinions?
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Anime and Manga should not be its own section. Theatrically released and direct to video animated movies made in Japan should go in Film—Animation. Televised animation made in Japan should go in Television—Animation. Manga should go in Comics.
Western animated cartoons should receive the same treatment too; theatrical and direct to video animations in Film—Animation and television animation in Television—Animation. If we go with that naming scheme Film—Live-Action and Television—Live-Action should have their names changed to match the format.
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Except that's not how it's done. For a variety of reasons. Search Wiki Talk threads for more detail. It's been discussed to death, and Anime and Manga are staying separate.
Also fans of anime and western animation see them as distinctly individual and have a rivalry. Lumping would just cause an outrage.
I think the examples should be sorted by how they are played anyway
edited 2nd Jul '13 1:26:05 AM by MikuruFan
I just came across another entry (on this page) that's about an animated movie, but was placed in the western animation section instead of the film section where it belongs.
I moved it, but I'm noticing more and more seems to be a common troper habit; how do we go about fixing it?
One idea that comes to mind is to PM users who add such things to tell them they're putting entries in the wrong sections. As more of them realize it's in the wrong section, fewer of them add the misuse and presumably some of them will help clean it up; I think this would also set up a feedback loop wherein the less misuse there is, the less often it gives new tropers the wrong impression about where such entires go. But first I want to discuss this to see if it's a good idea.
edited 22nd Aug '12 7:49:15 AM by HiddenFacedMatt
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