Star Wars

Meh. Both were bad, but the CIS were awesome, so I like them more >.>

My hatred of the Republic is irrational, but still there.

The big reason to prefer an empire over a Republic is that things get done a lot faster in an Empire. Sadly, most turn out to be corrupt, evil, and violent at some point very quickly, and most if not all were created specifically for the protection/glorification of one small group of people.

Well, I have to say that the book Apocalypse makes me think about Troy Denning and how I'm beginning to see patterns in his writing. What kind of patterns? Well....

• Anti-Climax Boss: Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus seemed to be this in Invincible. Apocalypse has Abeloth get mostly killed off in a way that certainly did not felt climatic. I get the impression that Denning has a "Yeah, yeah, let's get this over with!" approach to Final Boss fights. On the other hand, maybe he's trying to communicate to readers that life goes on, and that, realistically, it's more about taking down one threat and moving on to the next one.
• Bitter Sweet Ending: Invincible has Jacen killed off (and maybe dying as himself), and Daala gets put in charge of the Galactic Alliance. Apocalypse has Abeloth mostly dead (but she could return someday), the Jedi having to relocate from Coruscant to somewhere else, Raynar taken by the Kiliks, Wynn Dorvan (a good man) put in charge of the Galactic Alliance, and the One Sith and Vestara still out there...somewhere.
• What Happened to the Mouse?: Invincible had Niathal just vanish without a trace or mention. Apocalypse has Daala lose an election (yes, an election in the Imperial Remnant!) and absolutely nothing is said on what happened to her afterwards. Well, hopefully, the next book will elaborate on this.

See, what I like about TV Tropes is how you get to point out patterns that pop up in writing!

edited 16th Mar '12 9:26:58 AM by TiggersAreGreat

it annoyed me somehow that we only found out what exactly Abeloth is in the last book out of nine. It somehow makes me feel as if the other 8 books where just the prologue to Apocalypse.

I have to say, though...wen i read "strange dark man with tattoos" I first assumed the Son had somehow returned. And then once he was described with lacking an arm and eye...didn't see that one coming.

Now that apocalypse is through I'm eagerly awaiting Timothy Zahns Han Solo Book :)

I'm really glad Wynn Dorvan is Chief of State of the GA. About damn time.

Does anyone else see the whole Clone Wars as basically a rerun of the ACW?

Er...ACW?

American Civil War. The basics are there, slave-taking secessionists vs. democratic republicans.

Except the Democratic side is using a child slave army . . .

You mean the clone troopers? Really, you could argue that the Clone Wars were a case of Evil vs. Evil, with the Jedi being the most sympathetic. Of course, Palpatine/Darth Sidious made sure of all that, now didn't he?

In that set of books going into the Dark Times, Obi-Wan found himself trying to help the Separatists against the Galactic Empire. The G.E. beat the Separatists in a Curb-Stomp Battle. Really, by that point, I think I was feeling pity for the Separatists, because they had no idea that they were all Unwitting Pawns to a Sith Lord!

Quick question.

KJA's page on here says this:

"Kevin J. Anderson's works have stirred many controversies, most notably the Jedi Academy Trilogy, of which much has later been retconned by other writers."

What was retconned from the JA Trilogy?

I liked those books. Well when I was younger. I've certainly read worse EU novels.

Been awhile since I've read it so I'm not sure about specifics but Corran Horn is retcond into being there in the book I, Jedi. Which changes a lot of things about it.

I read the Jedi Apprentice series as a kid. I LOVED those. Siri, Bantu, or something like that, Taal, Xanatos, and that crazy "not so, I lie" guy.

It's been ages since I read them, though.

Hm. Well the important stuff seems to be intact. Don't really care if some mnor details were changed.

So can we talk about the comics in here or should i make a seprate SW comics thread? It's just thinking about JA has made me want to read the Tales Of The Jedi comic in full. It did actually look interesting.

Hey, don't forget the Star Wars Video Games! A number of them played a very important role in the franchise!

Take the games starring Kyle Kriffin' Katarn. The guy is the Star Wars equivalent of Doomguy from Doom. I would say that he is a Badass, Darker and Edgier version of Luke Skywalker, because he has been on both sides of the fence (in more ways than one), has shown that you can Shoot the Dog without automatically becoming a Darksider, and can generate a Crowning Moment Of Awesome with little effort on his part! Remember the time when he almost single-handedly put a stop to the Dark Trooper project...and he hadn't even tapped into the Force right then?! Well, Darth Vader did say that "The Force is strong in Katarn," but that doesn't negate the fact that no Force abilities were used in that game. That game deserves a remake!

There's the Knights Of The Old Republic games. It's like the guys who made the games discovered a number of things about Tales Of The Jedi that they really did not like, and decided to bring them out so we can all see them. Yeah, the Sith were bad guys, no question, but the Jedi Order was seriously uncool in those games!

They take peoples' kids and try to make them forget all about home so they can focus on doing what the Order wants/needs them to do. They also take it upon themselves to solve peoples' problems, rather than allowing non-force users to do it. (I know, the Order is asked to do a lot, but maybe if the regular people had to rely on them a little less, they'd be better off in themselves.) There aren't very many periods where the Order is both cool and strong.

Yes, the Jedi Order did that, especially around the Prequel era. Well, at least it wasn't nearly as terrible as when they used Force Sensitive children as Child Soldiers in the Darth Bane era!

What's interesting is how the Jedi Order has fallen victim to Nice Job Breaking It, Hero and Genre Blind (shame on them for thinking that the Sith were gone forever!). You have the child soldier thing I just mentioned. You have the Jedi using clone troopers in the Prequel era, and boy, did that come back to bite them in the posterior! In fact, Luke Skywalker's Order was probably the one that ended up the best off. Of course, they sure had some controversial decisions occur, like in Star Wars Legacy with the Yuuzhan Vong terraforming. It was well-intentioned, but the fact that it got sabotaged sure made the Jedi look bad!

The Yuuzhan Vong biotech thing would have worked better if they were more restrained with it. They initially used ten planets, including Ossus, but once short term success was seen, the Jedi decided to use the Vongtech to terraform dozens more, giving the Sith plenty of targets. If they took a decade or so to test out any possible complications with the process before expanding its use, they may have known about the exact flaw or process the Sith exploited and foil the attempt at sabotage. For an organization which prizes patience, the Jedi were remarkably hasty.

I'll spare you the "I refuse to bother with anything New Jedi Order or later" screed and instead ask what prequel-era books are worth looking into. I seem to remember hearing something about a book that covers Obi Wan's pre-Attack Of The Clones Jedi training, which I'd probably be interested in checking out if it actually exist and isn't just a figment of my fevered imagination. Anyone read any of the KOTOR-era stuff, for that matter? A friend of mine read Revan and said it was garbage, but IIRC there's most stuff around that part of the timeline, too.

edited 26th Mar '12 6:07:55 PM by NativeJovian

Most of Drew Karpyshyn's Star Wars literature tends to be garbage, but since all of his novels have been in eras made unworkable due to Forgone Conclusion, it's not entirely his fault.

For Apprentice Obi-Wan, the only books like that are the Jedi Apprentice novels. They are for younger readers but that's all there is.

I don't think there are any KOTOR novels apart from Revan. It's all in comic form or the gamess.

Oh, yeah! I forgot about that part. Well, at least Luke Skywalker's Jedi Order is willing to adapt and change and admit to making mistakes, unlike Yoda's Jedi Order!

There are points when I kinda wonder if the Jedi actually look at their history and learn from the mistakes. I know everybody screws up at some point, but I believe there's a difference between reasonable screw-ups and screw-ups that look like somebody held the Idiot Ball a little too long!

edited 27th Mar '12 5:08:43 AM by TiggersAreGreat

I don't recall exactly when KOTOR takes place, so I'm not entirely sure about this (also, it's a horror novel and therefore an acquired taste), but Death Troopers author Joe Schreiber wrote another Star Wars book with zombies in it, taking place about 2,500 years before A New Hope, called Red Harvest. It's actually better than Death Troopers in my opinion, because it plays up the fantasy aspects of the SW universe (most characters are either Jedi or Sith, and the zombie-conjuring is primarily magical in nature this time) and therefore works better as horror (the supernatural is always scarier than the technological).

KOTOR is roughly 4,000 years before A New Hope. The Old Republic is around 300 years later.

On the subject of KOTOR-era novels, I saw a few in my local library today. I didn't borrow any of them, since I already had three books and I wasn't sure which order the KOTOR books went in, so I'll have to poke around online about them. They were The Old Republic tie-in novels, but they weren't Revan, so I have no idea how good they're supposed to be.

Wow, i had no idea here were this many tie-in novels for TOR.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic_%28novel_series%29

So there are a handful of Old Republic era novels now.

Also while the Jedi aren't especially bright, the Legacy-era Jedi were intelligent enough to make a secret base to train and keep the students safe just in case the galaxy screwed them over. (again)

edited 27th Mar '12 11:05:48 AM by Nikkolas