The Constructive Criticism Thread

Please reread the first post. You're not allowed to even mention your own work while we're giving feedback to someone else, let alone post huge excerpts from it.

Everyone else: I will holler this, asking to get it thumped. Please ignore it and continue giving feedback to AHR.

Well, from what I can tell, it looks like it was interpreted as Nicky intentionally deciding to lightningify the town, when in fact the talisman basically gave him a giant boost, which made everything go all kablooey. Since that wasn't obviously noted by you and Betsy, I figured I should probably make it more obvious.

Night: Thanks! I will take the panel layout into consideration. I actually need to add an extra page (so the even-odd numbers will be proper), but I'll think of adding more quantity instead of just stretching it.

Eudia: Heh. I'm still learning on how to do SFX stuff. Thank you so much!

edited 8th Feb '12 12:52:46 PM by MrAHR

No, it was clear that it wasn't intentional; that's not the issue I had with it.

The issue you had with it was that you thought it was an overreaction, was it not? I mean, Nicky was always an easily ticked off feller, the aspie that he is, but it's not like he himself is the one that went "HOW DARE THEY MAKE FUN OF MY HAIR RARGLE FRARGLE." It was just a simple panic attack. If that's the issue, I'll just make that more clear.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:00:39 PM by MrAHR

That'll be £50, please, into my bank account.

Just a note about panel layout - your ratio for standard to non-standard layout is, maybe, a little low on the standard side - but it's not horrendously so. You tend to average out well for pages at a time, so it's not critical in the least.

I only raise this as you might be accidentally blunting a tool you can use. If you supply a panel-pattern for a little bit, and then break it for an important plot-point... it can really have impact.

Take that important talisman activating: the readers are hit harder by the emphasis if they are fed a recognisable rhythm, first. — Bang: wham page, say hi! — Then a new beat takes up afterwards as a subtle hint that things have shifted.

You've already shown a solid grasp of this, as you do an instinctive rhythm-shift around the important bits. Your timing for your gear changes might be just a little off, but practice will fix that. At no point did I feel as if you'd stalled in the middle of a hill.

I've seen some people stick to a rotationally-based, coded system: a bit like a rhyming pattern for lines in different forms of poetry. Cheerfully broken up for when plot requires it, of course.

You could experiment a bit more with that, I don't know. In the main, though, I could see the logic behind your proposed layouts as they are; so, I wasn't getting bugged in the least, or I would have said so sooner.

Okay, I'm done reading it.

First of all I want to note that I probably had a much easier time deciphering what was going on, because other people took the time to figure it out earlier and explain it. The first time I tried skimming through it, I had no idea that the scene was someone being forcibly presented to a crowd with their new embarrassing haircut, and later freaking out and raining lightning on people; I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

This is probably due to the comic-as-text presentation and being thrown head-first into the climax, both of which are not actually part of the work. But just in case this might be an actual concern, I decided to bring it up.

My opinion on Nicky actually differs from the majority here: I have no problem at all with his freaking the hell out. I can guess from the whole scene that he's a kid- eight years old? Twelve? And at that age, one is not likely to have a very developed sense of responsibility. You have a very good opportunity here to play off of that old adage, "in a good play, everybody is in the right". Nicky is humiliated and feels completely powerless, and as a result goes on a rampage that is (I assume) largely out of his control. He is doing something wrong, morally reprehensible, but at that exact moment he can't see that — and you should totally invest more in milking this contrast, because in my opinion that's what makes this scene.

See, you don't have to make Nicky's actions good, or make him likeable. You just need to make it possible for the audience to see where he is coming from, and make the reader buy his rampage, see his train of thought for all its deranged yet inevitable glory. For that reason I think that the best panel of those you described was the "stop it stop it" panel. I vote for more panels showing what is going through his mind, whether he understands on some level that what he is doing is wrong or is filled with irrational frothing fragments-of-thoughts to the degree that he doesn't care anymore what death and destruction is going to happen because of him. Also more panels of people reacting to him rather than the havoc he is wreaking (I believe that last one has already been suggested). This is a dark scene, and the execution probably needs to be more tense and foreboding than it comes across now.

You actually might have trouble with pulling off the above, because Nicky's reaction is very disproportionate, perhaps more than you could possibly sell to a reader out of the blue. There's this kid, and he's being paraded with his new haircut, and he has this freakout? No matter how convincingly you portray it, the willing suspension of disbelief is going to suffer. But there's something you can change that will make the circumstances completely different: This scene is an insult to Nicky. An insult itself is usually harmless, but if that insult is on top of a real injury, a real pain, that changes everything. This scene would be so much more believable if it weren't the haircut that Nicky was freaking out over, but what it stands for- people bossing him around, making a spectacle out of him, forcing him to be one way instead of the other, using him as target practice for their need to humiliate someone. These are themes that, if well-foreshadowed, can make this a very satisfying climax.

The other thing you want to consider is the aftermath. Again, there is a lot to explore and to dig for, and provided that you pull off the chain of events here well, you have a fork on the road for Nicky- this is his Start of Darkness, for all intents and purposes, and it is up to him whether he accepts or rejects this darkness. He needs to come to terms with whether he embraces the side of him that nearly killed all these people or struggles to be a different person. Whatever his decision, he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. Some people will no doubt hate him and want him to suffer, if not die. Others, most likely his family, will still want to protect him, but will be ambivalent about whether he even deserves to be protected. And there might even be an unexpected friend who makes the leap and tells him he/she understands him, after all and in spite of it all. Nicky will have to deal with all of this. You're probably looking at an open ending here, hinting at the path he will ultimately decide to take.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:13:32 PM by TripleElation

Euo: Panel layout is very new to me, thank you.

Triple: Yeah, this is about the 3rd freak out he's had over his hair, so it definitely was foreshadowed. But he actually has no control, which is something I need to emphasize more, since it does make it look like he had more intent than he really did. I'll REALLY have to work on that. He actually had no intention on using his powers whatsoever. So yeah, that extra page is definitely gonna be devoted to focusing on Nicky's psyche. I had no idea it came off that way. Glad I got people to look at it before I edited it for my second draft.

He is also...older...than twelve by about two years, but he has been mentally and emotionally repressing himself because he desires to comes off as he did at that age, so I'm glad that shone through, albeit in a warped way.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:17:34 PM by MrAHR

I don't think it seems intentional; it comes across as a panic attack, as you intended. He just comes across as completely self-centered and entitled, having a complete meltdown over the sort of thing that most of us have put up with at some point.

Yes, and adding on to that, his melt down is harming people. A lot of them.

AHR, there is almost a dissonance between what you are describing (which doesn't sound so bad), and what came across in the script.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:20:14 PM by BetsyandtheFiveAvengers

Well, it wouldn't be a very good character study if he was a normal well-adjusted person.

Also, his hurting people is the point. What's a climax without the catalyst? This is just the wake up call he needs to find out that having super powers isn't exactly all fun and games. He can't get all panicky and whiny now, like he used to.

I don't see the dissonance though. There is a kid. He has powers. He has panic attack over something rather innocent. Accidentally causes giant lightning storm. Hurts people. Someone is smart enough to knock him out so it stops. Cut.

I'm not trying to portray this as a good thing. I wanted it to be a nice kick in the ass for Nicky.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:25:32 PM by MrAHR

Writing a character that is not "normal and well-adjusted" is completely fine.

But what I read goes beyond that. A character's personal, internal pain (over a trifle issue) is spreading in a dangerous way. If all you wanted to do is show the protagonist that "magical powers is not all fun and games, is there another way you can do it?

It's not something that needs to be argued back and forth. I'm only giving an opinion.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:28:12 PM by BetsyandtheFiveAvengers

I only scanned through this, so my opinion can't count as a full critique but...

What are the main antagonists in your story? Usually, the climax is where the protagonist confronts the antagonist and resolves the plot one way or another. If society in general is the antagonist, that's fine. In a way, he's confronting society about not exactly fitting in. But if your main antagonists are other characters, some readers might feel like it isn't a good enough of a conclusion. Just something to think about.

I think it'd be better to decide that he did have control over his rampage, even if only to the small extent that he could have probably prevented himself from losing control so totally in the first place. His victims and nearly-victims will most probably hold Nicky responsible for what happened, and the thought will doubtlessly cross his mind that in the end, this was his doing, no matter how much "not in control" he supposedly was.

When I'm talking about foreshadowing I'm not talking about previous hair freak-outs, but, you know, showing the spot that hurts, showing why he would care so much, why this whole haircut thing got to him. For instance, maybe he thinks his hair is one of the few things about him that people like and get him noticed in a positive way? You get the gist. Put yourself in his place and think what could have actually gone on in his head for him to react so strongly.

I know you make Nicky the way you do on purpose, but I just have to keep asking: Why would people read this? Who's going to be interested in the journey of a selfish whiny brat*

AHR here, using Cakman's computer due to location.

Betsy: Because it's supposed to be dangerous. Poisonous. Tragic. Etc. Etc. This is an action series after all. Actiony things will happen in overly dramatic fashions, and people will do backflips wilst beating the crap out of each other.

Chih: ...not every book needs an antagonist, this is merely the first book climax of many, nicky is his own worst enemy, etc.

TE: Yeah, I know what his deal is. I've written about it too. I'm still working on how to properly show it. I've spent 4 years with this buggerhead in my mind. I know his ins and outs. Thank ye kindly. I already have the reactions of the others planned out, although Nicky won't actually get to see it he bails town out of fear for what will happen.

Dragon: —shrugs— I have to try. It's the story I want to tell. If that means I limit my audience, so be it, but...it's what is in my head. A take on a typical shonen hero, and how the poisonous traits hurt those around him, and how he basically learns to grow up. I don't think I will succeed, but I want to try. One step at a time.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:46:56 PM by Cakman

Okay, wait.

Every story needs an antagonist. The antagonist is part of the central conflict of a story. It doesn't always have to be another character, like Chihuahua was referring to. If Nicky is his own worst enemy, than his anxieties or other issues are antagonizing him in this instance. It's the classic Man v. Self conflict.

Personally I have no problem reading about flawed heroes, as long as I don't have to put up with the Protagonist-Centered Morality that usually comes pre-packed with them.

Why would anyone want to read a story about a whiny, self-centered brat? Probably in hopes of a satisfying exploration of the roots of whiny-self-centered-brat-ness. I'm following Naruto (shut up! It's a guilty pleasure!) and from what I gather its fandom has a broken base because the author was so uncannily good at getting people to sympathize with a whiny, homicidal, self-centered brat, even if just a little.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:50:28 PM by TripleElation

STILL AHR

Yes. That. Man vs. Self. That thing. At least to a degree. It's one of the running themes.

Naruto was actually one of my main inspirations for this thing. That and One Piece. Of course, I can't claim half the skill of either of them ,especially since I'm trying for a more negative route.

edited 8th Feb '12 3:51:42 PM by Cakman

Well, it's your story, and I know that's how you feel about it, so I'll quit commenting on it.

Rules state no less than a week for one person, no? So it would go until the 13th before the next person.

edited 8th Feb '12 4:08:08 PM by jewelleddragon

Well, that's five reviews. Do we want to continue the discussion, or open the thread up to the next person?

I'm pretty sure the OP meant that even after you get five reviews, you still need to wait for the post to be one week old before anyone is allowed to post their own stuff. I personally think that's overkill, but oh well.

@AHR: All right, although I can definitely see a Man vs. Society conflict under the surface. I hadn't seen your entire work, but I want to be sure this is what the entire story builds up to. It's the moment where Nicky releases his power and is hit with a realization.

I asked that question because I read a blog post recently with commenters saying how they hate it when a book in a series keep too many loose ends hanging and it ends with a cliffhanger. Even if this is the first in the series, you want the reader feeling that the story is resolved in some level, even if the main conflict is still rolling.

I mainly added the week rule as a sanity check thing, so people wouldn't post half-rear-ended "criticisms" just to up the counter so they can start talking about their own work.

How about this: As long as we're not past the week time limit, and the current person we're giving feedback to has more things they want input about (possibly more text, or more angles they want feedback about regarding a text they already posted), they can ask for it and keep getting feedback. They can also say "All right, I'm done", and then they're done and it's the next person's turn.

edited 8th Feb '12 4:24:19 PM by TripleElation

That sounds more reasonable.