"TropeName: Type X" Cleanup

Well, I replaced the types on the folders, but this actually needs categorizing.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

This cleanup was long overdue. I'm in.

... but I don't think I'll be as helpful as I was in the Nightmare Fuel cleanup: mostly because I don't know how to look for such "examples", while the NF cleanup was simply - so to speak - about cleaning entire pages. This is why this cleanup might be, ironically, a lot harder than the other one.

Feel free to PM me and give me a mission. I'll do my best.

[EDIT: In the meanwhile, I'll settle with fixing such examples whenever I happen to spot one. Wish me luck. ]

[EDIT 2: Spotted and fixed one in the Daredevil character sheet, specifically under the Anti-Hero example for the titular character *

. I had to browse several other tropes though, which confirms this is gonna be quite a chore. I still want to help if I can, but I don't know how often I'll happen to come across other Type Lamers Labels. Going to sleep now. As said before, PM me if you have specific instructions for me.]

edited 14th Nov '12 6:25:33 PM by AlexSora89

I'm from Piedmont. No relation with Piedmon, mind you!

Alright, I got an offender... I think: Prongs of Poseidon.

The main description doesn't seem to have the types outlined in a way where you know what type is what, or at least I don't see it. If it's not the latter, then yeah, the descriptions to the types, especially the last ones, are kind of vague. Again, I'm not sure if it's just me or if the description doesn't seem to spell out the types like other pages.

Sorry if this is a Necropost.

Looking at the edit history, there used to be a first, second, third, fourth in the description, but "third" and "fourth" got edited out, leaving the types dangling. Too tired to figure out how to fix it, though.

Also, necroposts on long-running Special Efforts threads (like this one) are fine; in fact, they are encouraged over starting a new thread.

My first impulse would be to split off the "tridents are demonic" part into a trope of its own.

Not gonna do something THAT radical unless it's a last resort. It's better to make the descriptions spell out the type rather than split it off into more tropes.

Done the edit, hoping it will do.

edited 8th Dec '12 5:08:31 AM by Psyga315

Um, we actually don't want "type 1, type 2" tropes. They are responsible for messes, because instead of describing the trope, people just write: Anti-Hero: Type III. And that's bad.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

So... It's better to split them?

Found another one: Portal Book. I was gonna just change the numbered list to regular bullets, but then I noticed the examples were soft-split. How do we want to handle this one?

edited 13th Jan '13 6:28:11 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I feel that soft-splitting according to "types" just promotes type labels

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

In how many cases are types not actually subtropes?

Check out my fanfiction!

The idea behind soft-splitting into types is that the page serves to catch and sort all the examples, then the types eventually get hard-split off to pages of their own as they get enough examples to demonstrate that they're a legitimate subtrope.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Triang Relations is another trope with this problem. I'm not sure what to do with the description, to be honest - I can't think of a name for all 13 types. Might even have to wait for a TRS slot.

edited 14th Jan '13 10:52:52 PM by nemui10pm

A genius, a philosopher, an abstract thinker

I am sure we have already several tropes for some types on that page.

edited 15th Jan '13 12:50:13 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Spinoff has 11 types... could they all be merged in folders sorted by media or do we already have tropes for them to go to?

Macron's notes

It would be nice if we could just un-number the types and label them qualitatively rather than quantitatively.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I think Triang Relations is a special case. Because its "types" are all 13 ways three points can be connected with one-way connections, two-way connections, or one nonexistent connection, trying to find descriptive names for each of them, let alone separating each into tropes, seems to be missing the point. Indeed, several of the types probably have multiple tropes, mostly involving gender and orientation variations.

It also has the same problem as Sliding Scale Of Anti Heroes as it's a hard split of the "type list" for Love Triangle.

Triang Relations is more of a Useful Note, particularly since each mathematical variation can apply to both romantic and platonic relationships, and even a mixture of both, thereby stopping each of the 13 types from being a trope itself. It doesn't help that a lot of the examples make some rather questionable judgements about what does and doesn't "count" for a significant relation, often contradicting themselves. For example, in the King Arthur, Lancelot, Queen Guinevere love triangle, apparently Lancelot is torn between his (unplotted) feelings for Guinevere and his (plotted)devotion to Arthur, thereby making it a Type 12 instead of the Type 11 that the example description would imply.

I do think specific variations can be tropes (and often subtropes of Love Triangle). A few example cases I think might have more going to them than "and this is another mathematical way to have a triang relation":

• The tragic All Love Is Unrequited gay man—straight man—straight (or bi) woman (or gender-flipped version) variant of Type 2, where no one has a viable love interest. I'm told this is a common variation in gay cinema. This either goes to Type 8 if they come to a friendly understanding, stays as 2 for the tragedy, or results in a Type 4 because the straight pair has to get together in the end. (Generous writers will Pair the Spares or pull another gay guy/gal out of their ass to get a happier ending.)
• The very Shakespearean "Alice has a wanted (but not always requited) love interest as herself (or himself) and an unwanted (usually sexuality-incompatible) one while crossdressing", which includes variations of 2, 4, 5, 6, 11, 12, and 13^note often with the person in Bob or Charlie's spot actually being the crossdresser depending on the point in the arc, and has an Unsettling Gender-Reveal for the unwanted love interest. You know, Twelfth Night (and thus She's the Man) plus a boat-load of crossdressing anime aimed at the Shōjo Demographic. May or may not involve Sweet on Polly Oliver on the part of the desired love interest.
• The "Alice can't act on her mutual attraction with Bob because her good friend Claire also likes Bob"^note Though I have the feeling that this will usually have the opposite genders than the ones I used romance/friendship variants on 11 and 12 (or 8 and 11 if Claire is equally devoted to Alice, with corresponding changes to the types below).
  • If Alice succeeds, she suffers nobly in a Type 6 (or 11, if the writer really wants to twist the knife). Alternatively, in the "Claire is devoted to Alice" variant, Claire figures out how Alice feels and decides to get out of the way without getting over Bob. This is the bittersweet ending.
  • If Alice fails, Claire finds out, and Claire isn't willing to let go, things turn tragic. The Arthurian love triangle is a good example of this. This is the bad ending.
  • Finally, if Claire turns out to be a total bitch/bastard, Alice gets over her devotion and lives happily ever after with Bob in a Type 4. Alternatively, if Claire is devoted to Alice after all, Claire realizes she's getting in the way of Alice/Bob and quickly gets over her feelings for Bob into Type 7. Either way, this is the happy ending.

Mind you, these are just some examples, and do need refining (and maybe even splitting), but the core idea here is that there are tropes—the tropes often follow a progression through particular types and often fall into one of many types depending on minor (i.e. not distinct enough to split off) variations. A split by type would by focusing on mathematical structure, not story structure.

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As for Spin-Off, I think that would make a good index, with each type being its own trope.

edited 15th Jan '13 10:49:25 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Maybe we need to wait for a TRS spot to clean Triang Relations.

A genius, a philosopher, an abstract thinker

I think we said before to make a TRS thread for Triang Relations.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Tsundere only has two types. This is the most common type label that I come across, being a mainly anime troper, but I know that article have chronic issues with hard splitting... Any resolutions yet?

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova

Train Escape. It's even soft-split.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

H-Game is trying to be a list of protagonist types as well as an index (H Game POV Character redirects to it.)

Just found a severe Type Labels Are Not Examples case on Saya no Uta, I don't normally browse the h-game pages so I don't know if there's more like it:

Good grief. Even by the standards of "type" tropes, that's utter gobbledygook.

Is it better now?

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer