Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
Discarded and Feeling Blue
It might also be the same effect that some LGBT tropes had. People get excited about good representation and want tropes that discuss these things. Action Girls aren't rare anymore but they're still not considered the default.
I do wonder if there's a potential subtrope for where the toughest character is a girl and is often surrounded by guys. It's a common character archetype- the most badass or tough character is a girl.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Unknown Unknown
The Big Girl and World's Strongest Woman?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Those are redirects to The Big Guy and World's Strongest Man.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
I'm also talking about a far more specific archetype than those- the girl is usually always very stoic and hardened. Sexism is a common problem for them. They're usually the only girl on the unit. This might be The Smurfette Principle but it involves the smurffette being the strongest of her peers and usually she had to work twice as hard to get there.
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 11th 2020 at 2:22:04 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Unknown Unknown
Pretty Princess Powerhouse, Little Miss Badass, The Squadette, Strong Girl, Smart Guy, Action Girlfriend, One of the Boys, Breaking the Glass Ceiling (across any marginalized group), Extraordinarily Empowered Girl, More Deadly Than the Male
You Go, Girl! is also about overcoming sexism to be as good or better than the boys, but as written its limited to sports, not action in general.
Stay in the Kitchen is for the situation when people tell her not to participate because of gender, but is a narrative trope not a character trope. Sweet Polly Oliver is a work around.
there are a lot of girl is/wants to be stronger, or as strong as the boy tropes already. We could add even more.
Edited by acrobox on Dec 11th 2020 at 4:55:51 AM
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Squadette seems the closest.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
we could add more subtropes tho. i'm not opposed.
but it feels like tropes that describe the how, why, or how others In-Universe react are tropes, but Action Girl on its own isn't enough to be tropeworthy. Especially in an Action genre work.
Same baseline for the other badass tropes. "because" or "despite" In-Universe can stay. Just existing and having a certain identity should not.
hmmm i saw the the Badass Gay page had to be locked due to people reverting it.
Is there a better way to celebrate good representation, outside of filing under badass x.
or if that's the way people want to do it, people should feel like they can enjoy the wiki and express themselves.
Edited by acrobox on Jan 6th 2021 at 8:03:18 AM
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
See this thread. The idea of a SugarWiki.Gushing About Representation You Like page was proposed.
wow that's exactly what i was looking for
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Bump. Any ideas? Should we have a crowner? I'm plugging this thread in the March edition of Trope Report, so hopefully that'll drum up some more attention.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
i'd be down for whatever the group wants to do next.
but i would keep in mind especially for identity tropes like Badass Gay and Action Girl going forward, even if we decided cut them for not being tropeworthy we should create or find alternate tropes to preserve people's wish for general acknowledgement of positive representation.
I feel like Action Girl is such a major trope that we need more people involved in the discussion.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
The Unknown Unknown
Ask The Tropers then?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
It's getting plugged on the next edition of Trope Report if that helps.
The Unknown Unknown
Hmm. Should we table Action Girl then for now?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
the next things in the sandbox are Badass Adorable, Badass Bandolier, and Cool Old Guy.
Cool Old Guy is just a proposal for a rename however, so that may be the simplest option.
Or does anyone have other suggestions of what to tackle in the meantime?
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Why table this? What'd be gained from that?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
How sweet it is
Bringing this thread back. I have added Action Girl to TRS Wick Cleaning. Hopefully that lessens the load.
Speaking of loads, the ZCE cleanup thread recently brought up Badass Beard and Badass Moustache. I'll add the two to the queue.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Well, problem is, we never actually got around to deciding what to do with Action Girl, so it's hard to clean it.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
How sweet it is
I'm thinking, since it's very heavily used, and it has subtropes, maybe have it be a proper supertrope.
Edited by Berrenta on Jun 13th 2021 at 12:01:36 PM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Isn't it already one? What would cleaning entail in that case? Removing wicks for characters that already have one of the subtropes listed?
Hmm... (this is a repost) Well, Action Girl has a lot of Sub-Tropes... Which could be sorted into sections and Missing Supertrope-s spawned to cover some bases?
Some axes to use... Muscular, Trained, Enhanced, Bloodline, etc?
But not all of those are female-relevant...
Edited by Malady on Oct 10th 2021 at 5:30:32 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
I think we mainly need a cleanup and perhaps the generation of a few missing subtropes. The main issue is people using Action Girl when they mean one of the subtropes or when World of Badass/World of Action Girls applies, which makes listing Action Girl separately for each character redundant. This stems from people thinking More Tropes = Good and using well-known tropes to pad out character pages.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"