Humans are bastards. But so is all life on Earth, so that's OK

Right, many optimists, for whatever reason, try to affirm that humans are not in fact bastards, contrary to what pessimists believe. From the title of the thread, you can guess where I stand on the conflict, but I have reasons to back up my claims, and it doesn't involve pointing at a bunch of atrocities.

For one thing, if humans were truly good natured beings, then why does power corrupt so easily? Money and power easily corrupt even the most well meaning of folks. If humans were good by nature, then surely money and power would only make them even moreso, but instead they turn into assholes. It's not even world power either, just think of the power we hold over celebrities. We peer into their lives, and we become judgemental dicks to them. Why? Because we can. After all, they're just celebrities. Another display of power. And we've all seen what happens when you give people the power to speak without reprecussion.

Holding that people are by nature good does not hold much weight IMO. If people were good by nature, then powerful people would be even more benevolent, but the exact opposite happens. People are dicks by nature, except some people just don't have the power to display their dickishness.

EDIT: Damn, accidentally sent too soon.

Anyways, my point is that basically all life exists to stomp on other's life. The only reason that humans are thriving today is by stomping on lower lifeforms too weak to stand against us. And we consider it a disaster if another lifeform makes life even a little more inconcvenient for us. But it's not like any other animal would act differently given our position.

Now, we get to the second part of my title. All animals are bastards, they're just not smart enough to be. Animal lovers just love to tote the anthem that animals don't start wars, and they don't kill for pleasure. Couple things wrong with that. The first is that wild animals do not have the free time to kill for pleasure, their main focus is on their own survival, and they don't have time to go out of their way to end other's survival. Especially since that would involve risking their own survival. Even ripping a defenseless animal to peices risks their survival by leaving them open to attack from something else. The other thing is that animals aren't smart enough to organize a war. If they were, they would.

edited 28th Dec '11 12:34:20 AM by washington213

I...actually agree with everything you wrote, good job, Washington.

Congratulations, you have an opinion.

I don't.

What about the rich and powerful people who do good things? :/

@Zersk An action can be good without the person doing the action being good.

@Zersk: Then they're nicer than cats or dolphins?

Imagines an epic war between snakes and mongooses

Yeah.

The snakes would lose. How could a snake possibly hold a weapon?

Would the honey badgers and mongooses be allies in this hypothetical war?

edited 28th Dec '11 12:41:27 AM by LEMadness

Clearly it's a Mammals vs. Reptiles kind of thing, the Mongoose/Snake conflict is just one of many.

KCK: True, I guess. :/ Still then, couldn't actions be bad without the person being bad? :/ Like, they were well-meaning, or being short-sighted?

^ Which side are the birds on? :o

edited 28th Dec '11 12:42:43 AM by Zersk

What about stiffy goats?

Hmn. So what about the case for Cheetahs versus Gazelles. They are both mammals, no?

edited 28th Dec '11 12:43:27 AM by LEMadness

LE: That's just a disguise. :3

And what about dinosaurs, what side were they on? :o

Simply put, bastards are more memorable. We all remember that troll who abused anonymity, but not the shepherds who guide the newbies. We remember the people who create fraudulent charities, but not those good-hearted, if gullible, people who donated.

All other things being equal, the majority of people want other people to be happy. It is easier to destroy than to create; since the world does not yet lie in ruins, we can only conclude that the urge to create generally overrides the urge to destroy. The exceptions to this rule are memorable for that very reason.

It's an Enemy Mine type of thing, obviously.

Don'tcha know? The dinos were turncoats!

Humans as bastards, exactly like all other life, true. However, humans can know and do better, that's why they are bastards while all other life is neutral hungry.

Humans are not bastards by nature.

Humans are selfish by nature, which incentivizes bastardliness. But it isn't the same thing, and is quite a different problem to try and tackle, all things considered.

@Zersk True, but you know what they say about good intentions.

KCK: Fair enough, but I don't really think that would make them a bastard, just a Well Intentioned Extemist of sorts. :/

edited 28th Dec '11 12:54:30 AM by Zersk

I don't think humans are bastards. We all love Luke and condemn Vader — that has to be indicative of what we value.

@Zersk Perhaps and one could argue that committing an improper action while pretending or believing that one is doing the "right" thing is a form of dishonesty.

@Alex I don't condemn Vader, I haven't even seen most of the Star Wars films. Besides, what a society claims to value they may not always put into practice. Actions speak louder than words, so they say.

edited 28th Dec '11 1:01:06 AM by KCK

KCK: I suppose. :o Regardless, I doubt that makes it the default of humanity. :/

edited 28th Dec '11 1:01:22 AM by Zersk