Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

So "Hispanic" is a subset of Caucasian, in the same sense in which "Anglo-Saxon" or "Mediterranean" (not sure if this is the right term, I am thinking of Italians and southern French people and Greeks) are so?

Or are we using "Caucasian" as a synonym for "Anglo-Saxon"?

Bah, racial classifications are weird.

edited 31st May '11 6:36:48 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Eh, well, on most forms around here, Caucasian and Hispanic show up as two separate bubbles to fill in.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Then "Hispanic" implies native South-American heritage on top on the European one, perhaps?

I am not sure how these things work: it would seem strange to me if I (an Italian) and a Spanish or Portuguese person would have to check two different boxes if we visited the U.S., but eh, it's not like these classifications make much sense to begin with...

edited 31st May '11 6:46:43 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Carciofus: Hispanic isn't really a racial group. It's an ethnic group. Anyone who has heritage in Latin America or Spain can be considered Hispanic, regardless of their race.

What is the difference between "racial group" and "ethnic group", precisely?

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Good question. I have yet to figure that one out cause that Hispanic bubble also has a tendency to fall under the racial section.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Here's a good site for the difference between race and ethnicity.

Oh no, I understand the differences, it's just that Hispanic is a funny little term that isn't really treated properly in my area and several others.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Thanks. So, judging from what that site claims, "ethnicity" equals "culture"? That's not what I was expecting, but fair enough.

Although there certainly is no such a thing as a "caucasian culture" — there is a "Western culture", certainly, but that definitely includes Spain and Portugal, and probably a good chunk of South America too — and even though any cultural group that included France, Germany, Italy, Greece, and the UK but not Spain or Portugal would seem rather strange to me.

edited 31st May '11 7:32:21 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Not answering the questionaire, but one thing I learned from my boyfriend (who is a South American immigrant), that he and his family as well as other immigrants have to work hard to keep up appearances. You have to be extra law-abiding and extra clean, because when a white person acts stupid in public, it's just that one guy acting stupid, but when a foreigner acts stupic, it reflects bad on all foreigners.

the statement above is false

That's one of the privilges that Peggy McIntosh listed in her essay.

edited 31st May '11 7:41:23 AM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

No, not at all. In fact we receive punishment for being White. We're becoming treated as second-class citizens in our own nations. Racial crimes against Whites are ignored, Whites are treated as the sole perpetrators of racial hatred, and it's considered perfectly ok in some circles to say that a profession, club, or town is "too White." You would get in big trouble if you said that about any other race.

"White Privilege" is a poisonous myth created by guilty White Cultural Marxists to justify the destruction of their own race and culture.

No. Rather, most official discrimination is in their favour.

Those who have immigrated from alien cultures, or who are of a different race, should have their citizenship limited until they are proven loyal and culturally assimilated. Those who are in the same racial and cultural group as the indigenous peoples should be welcomed with open arms. We have to adopt cultural-ethnic protectionism.

No. It breeds resentment and is completely unfair to Whites in their homeland. We should accept people on their suitability for a job, not because they are considered an "oppressed minority".

Because they want to appear special, and they are taught to be ashamed of their White heritage.

As for the inevitable accusations of racial hatred or bigotry... Call me whatever dirty words you like, there's nothing wrong with sticking up for your own race and culture.

edited 31st May '11 10:06:30 AM by Shichibukai

Requiem ~ September 2010 - October 2011 [Banned 4 Life]

I disagree, and I present myself as a counter example. I am not a Marxist and I don't believe in feeling guilty over something I can't help like my race, yet white privilege is something that I can identify in our society with very little difficulty.

Really, the fact that you can get away with saying something is "too white" without causing offence is indicative of white privilege. Most white people couldn't care less, because the insult has no barb to it.

edited 31st May '11 10:22:25 AM by BobbyG

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On the other hand, saying offensive things about white people is often considered ok. 'Whiteness studies' assume that whiteness is not about color of the skin but privilege and racism. To put this in context - you'd probably be offended if someone said that blackness is not about color of the skin but about crime and laziness. They're both offensive but one only the latter would cause people to label you as racist. Double Standard and self-loathing in my opinion

Generally a good post, though I disagree about assimilation. People shouldn't be forced to adapt, it would destroy both the different culture and individuality inside the cultures.

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

Whiteness is not about racism any more than any other race is about racism.

Privilege, however, is not a malicious act, and benefitting from privilege does not make one a bigot. It is not comparable to racism, crime or laziness in any way.

I should probably note that privilege is not something exclusive to white people, and which groups are most privileged varies between societies and cultures.

Also, what on Earth does self-loathing have to do with this?

edited 31st May '11 10:56:28 AM by BobbyG

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It is offensive to say that black people should be proud of their culture while narrowing the definition of whiteness to 'having advantage over the other people'. It's also extremely unfair.

Well, self-loathing has a lot to do with this. The very definition of whitenes proposed by 'whiteness studies' was coined by white people. It's white guilt all over the place

edited 31st May '11 10:57:59 AM by nzm1536

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

Whiteness does not mean "having advantage over other people". That is, in fact, a loose definition of privilege, but it is not a definition of whiteness that I am familiar with.

And fuck white guilt, who gives a shit about that?

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You seem to forget that I'm arguing against the definition proposed by whiteness studies and against the fact that it is seen as clever, progressive and socially acceptable and not as an offensive Double Standard.

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

Oh, well, it's not seen as any of those things by me, so nevermind I guess. I don't speak for society.

Although at least where I'm from, I'd be very surprised if the average person considered "racist and privileged" to be an accurate or acceptable definition of "whiteness".

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But blackness isn't about the color of your skin. It's about being considered to be in the "black" grouping and treated accordingly, even if you're of mixed descent and have pale skin. Whiteness is similarly about being considered to be in the "white" grouping—I have an unusual skin tone that's only found among some people of Irish descent, but I'm considered the same race as people with different skin tones from me.

edited 31st May '11 11:09:31 AM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Well, skin colour is one of the most obvious superficial qualities which cause a person to be grouped under "white" or "black".

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Frankly I know next to nothing about Germany or Wales, just used them as an example.

In any case, it isn't the BIG things that make a culture unique, it's the small everyday things.

I also do agree that it's startling, the degree that it's considered perfectly fine to comment on the "whiteness" of something, but not any other perceived racial associations.

Also also, a couple of the responses to the "personal question" bother me. Flip it around to talk about another "racial group."

A person with European features identifies themself as German.

A person with Asian features identifies themself as Korean.

I guarantee you won't demand "proof" from the Korean person.

edited 31st May '11 11:16:24 AM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

So why should black people have the right to their culture and heritage while 'whiteness should be abolished'?

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

^^ I dunno, I've heard the phrase "acting black" a fair few times and never heard anyone cry racism over it IRL, except in jest.

^ Whiteness and blackness are not cultures, and I don't know how you'd abolish whiteness (barring genocide, which, um, no), although I do think there might be something to be said for scrapping our current cultural conception of race altogether and adopting one more closely based on cultures and nationalities.

edited 31st May '11 11:16:27 AM by BobbyG

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^^ Personally, I don't think black people have the right to their cultural heritage. But if you wish to point out a double standard, you'll need to find an aspect of white culture that people other than me want abolished. And no, the "War on Christmas" does not count.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful