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dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#51: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:11:42 PM

This thread was specifically made so that people who want to discuss the series can have a place to discuss it without having to put up with all of the whining and bashing in the other thread.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#52: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:13:09 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#53: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:19:17 PM

As noted in the OP, there is a difference between critiscism and whining. The post that started this derail wan whining, not critiscism.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#54: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:20:29 PM

That is true.

But while there is negativity in the other thread, most of it is indeed actual criticism, with notes as to how it did better, and there were acknowledgements of good points in the series.

So... :/

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#55: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:25:21 PM

And whenever someone said that they liked the books they were shouted down with 'criticisms' until they either left the thread or admitted the error of their ways, most of those "criticisms" being subjective anyways.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#56: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:35:40 PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=hynl6097tfdoyl0bi770hf0h&page=3#57

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=hynl6097tfdoyl0bi770hf0h&page=2#27

And then we have posts like this, where I ask you to explain your position. Whereupon you tell me it's subjective, and maybe I should read the books before I complain. Which I have.

I believe this post by AHR sums it up.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#57: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:40:02 PM

I am trying to stop this thread from degenerating into an argument over the quality of the books like the other thread became. I would appreciate your help with that.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#58: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:43:21 PM

...

Have fun with that, then.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#59: Jun 12th 2011 at 7:44:37 PM

I will.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#60: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:29:33 PM

Paolini deserves the reward because yes, he did sell all those books.

But did those books deserve to loved by so many?

The quoteblock is a review of Eldest I did for English class earlier this year. I'm reposting it because, as according to the assignment, I was told to re-approach the book in a neutral manner, so this is about as close to a first impression as you can get. The review itself did not need to be neutral. I sound angrier than I should be because I was trying to pick a fight with an Inheritance fanboy in my class (personal grudge) and it's not organized very well, but I don't have time to rework the whole thing. It's also incomplete because I procrastinated, but I can add more as needed.

I had already read Eragon some time ago, it wasn't exactly in my top ten favorites. I heard from a friend that the second book was better, so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and use it for my English project. How bad could it be? Authors are bound to improve as they get more experience, right? As it turns out… wrong.

The basic plotline is that Eragon has to travel to the land of the elves to finish his training as a Rider while dealing with his new feelings for the elf Arya. The leader of the Varden, which is a resistance group against the Empire, has died and his daughter Nasuada takes his place, but she has to struggle to win the respect of her people. In the meantime, Eragon’s cousin Roran battles two monsters called the Ra’zac and leads his village to the Varden in order to rescue his fiancée from the Empire in a journey that later involves piracy and escaping a giant whirlpool of doom. It sounds interesting, doesn’t it? In the hands of a more skilled writer, it might have been. Instead, we are treated to a nearly seven hundred page cliché storm.

It took a long time to finish this book because so much of it seemed to be there because the author wanted to either show off the wonderful world he had created or give us another reason why the elves were the most wonderful people ever and therefore we should all be atheist vegetarian hippies. There were also little bits of description, scenes, and even entire chapters full of these things, infodumps, and other things that should have been edited out. These include being told how Nasuada is being attacked by the Empire's network of assassins. It is not strictly necessary, and it only makes the book drag more. Similar are the traveling chapters where we receive some small character development that may have been inserted later and in a better way than long dialogue. A more disturbing example is where we are told that elves have hairless groins. I will refrain from elaborating on that point. Sometimes, the description is inserted randomly where it has no relevance to what’s really going on. It’s distracting.

Throughout the book, it sounded as though Paolini wasn’t sure whether to write in Ye Olde English or just talk normally. The prose switches back and forth, including one instance where “thy” is used in the same sentence as “you” and “your”.

Also, the need to compose little poems and songs and write everything in those languages Paolini made up got old very fast. Some pages from Paolini's worldbuilding notes must have gotten mixed in with the manuscript. I applaud his dedication to his craft, but it is not necessary for the story, and simply bogs it down.

The characters drove me up the wall. We had plenty of meaningless extras, and the main characters were so irritating I wanted to find some way to reach into the book and smack them. A common technique to determine how well the author is writing the characters is to take away the names and see if you can tell who's speaking. Paolini failed this test. I couldn’t connect with the the characters and I have no sympathy for them. The one character with a hint of a complex personality, Murtagh, disappeared in the first chapter and reappeared in the last fifty pages as a new Rider, forced to serve the king through oaths in the language of magic. Does Eragon give him pity? Lament the loss of his friend and curse the king for destroying their relationship? No. Murtagh has just been revealed to be Eragon’s older brother and they are the sons of the Empire’s (now dead) right hand man, and Eragon declares that they don’t count as family because they’re evil. We don’t see any complex character development from this, just more angst.

Eragon himself is fascinating, but not in the way Paolini means him to be. Clearly, Eragon is supposed to be a hero, the savior of the land who will unite its people and lead it to a golden age of prosperity. Currently, we see a whiny man-child who is handed solutions to his problems on a silver platter. Your mentor died in the last book? You can go to his mentor, who is an elf and therefore infinitely superior and can give you even better training! Your brother and father are evil? Well, you never really knew them and you are pure of heart (cough), so they're not your real family! The ridiculously pretty and snooty elf you're mooning after turned you down? Uh oh, looks like she's actually falling for you! Did you get a cursed scar that randomly gives you seizures? A magical phenomenon that is never clearly explained in a logical manner can get rid of that for you! And while we're at it, let's make you pretty as an elf and just as strong. What is wrong with this is that although Eragon has conflicts, none of them are solved in a way that reveals his character or develops it in any way. And a whiny man-child he shall stay.

The sheer amount of logic failures in this book prompted me to use the tried-and-true therapy technique of banging my head on the nearest hard surface. A prime example is where the village of Carvahall builds a highly flammable barrier of logs and thorns around the town. The soldiers, instead of burning it, try dragging the logs away. Later, when the Ra’zac try to capture Roran, his fiancée Katrina manages to claw the soldiers’ faces so hard that enough blood was drawn to blind them. This would be plausible if said soldiers were strapped in a chair, at her mercy. This is not plausible because the soldiers are just standing there, capable of drawing their swords and decapitating her. The elves are strict vegetarians, and Eragon, after learning how to share the minds of animals, understands why the elves feel that the animals are their kin. Later, Eragon kills hundreds of fellow human beings in battle and hardly suffers.Addendum

I don’t care what happens unless the Varden and Eragon turn out to be evil and the “evil” king is just trying to do his job. Now, that would be interesting. However, I sincerely doubt that this what Paolini intended, but if that's what really happens, my respect for him will rise slightly.

edited 12th Jun '11 8:31:00 PM by snowfoxofdeath

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dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#61: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:33:59 PM

Is there anywhere on this site I can have a reasonable discussion about this series without having people trying to convoke me to hate it?

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#62: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:35:59 PM

You're in the minority, so that's hard to do.

But what's wrong with having a discussion with someone you disagree with? I find it to be lots of fun. I didn't consider that review to be bashing (except for the hyperbole, so that can be ignored) so that's why I posted it here. Please don't tell me you want it moved to the "wah-wah pile" because I'm not crying.

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dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#63: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:38:27 PM

I am able to live with a reasonable discussion on the merits and faults of a work. I just don't want it to follow me around every time I want to talk about the work.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#64: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:39:29 PM

You can acknowledge our points without hating it. I don't hate it, I just don't think it's very well-written.

You could also try telling us about the good points in the series.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#65: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:41:25 PM

D: I was looking for someone to give me an argument besides "you suck at reading" today.

I do give Paolini credit for putting his heart into the series. But heart isn't enough to make a good read.

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dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#66: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:43:09 PM

This thread is not for debating, that's what the other thread is for. I don't have to defend my liking of the series any more than you have to justify your dislike for it. I just want a place to discuss it without having to get into a whole debate. Can't you understand that?

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#67: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:44:31 PM

Discussion can be done even on what we have pointed out to you.

Like I said. Tell us what you think the good points are, and we will have something to actually discuss.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#68: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:45:53 PM

THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SERIOUSLY DISCUSS THE BOOKS

Notice that I said bashing, not criticism.

This thread is not for debating

Buh?

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dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#69: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:46:01 PM

The detailed backstory.

[up] I should have been clearer in the OP. this thread is meant to discuss the story in the books themselves. There was enough debate in the other thread, and I just wanted to get away from that. What I said about criticism was meant only if the criticism was incidental to the rest of the post.

Sorry if I was unclear, I usually have trouble explaining myself, which is partly why I wanted to avoid a debate.

edited 12th Jun '11 8:51:56 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#70: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:47:00 PM

I felt that the backstory was cliched. As if I had read it on fictionpress.com before.

Wait, whose backstory are you talking about?

edited 12th Jun '11 8:47:20 PM by snowfoxofdeath

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CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#71: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:50:35 PM

Detailed?

Um, what was the name of most of the Riders involved...?

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#72: Jun 12th 2011 at 8:57:11 PM

Added a bit to my previous post to clarify things.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
snowfoxofdeath Thou errant flap-dragon! from San Francisco Suburb Since: Apr, 2012
Thou errant flap-dragon!
#73: Jun 12th 2011 at 9:02:30 PM

I also feel like the thing with Brom and Selena was dropped in there like woah.

As a side note, I wish Galbatorix would've shown up to scare everyone once in a while.

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CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#74: Jun 12th 2011 at 9:08:10 PM

No, I mean, I can see where you're coming from. But, as far as I can remember:

> Galbatorix had a dragon. He went to kill the Urgals. (Why? Feat of combat?)

> Urgals killed his dragon.

> He managed to survive, and dragged himself back to civilization.

> He was denied a new Dragon.

> He corrupted Morzan, and encouraged Morzan to help him steal a dragon egg.

> There were 11 others he corrupted.

> They overthrew the Riders.

> There was a climactic throwdown, where Galbatorix kicked the head Rider in the gonads.

> A hundred years of tyranny and opression.

So what have I forgotten :S

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#75: Jun 12th 2011 at 9:11:12 PM

I think puttin hiin the foreground so rarely gives him more menace, as it leaves the threat up to the imagination. Paolini wasn't the first one to do this. At risk of bringing the usual comparisons, look as Sauron from Lord Of The Rings and the Emperor from Star Wars, both are hardly seen but they make their presence felt all through the series.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

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