This thread exists to discuss British politics.
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Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
The Shadows Devour You.
I'm banking on them running the country well, but not actually getting enough popular support to go for full-blown independence.
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
The Tories are still homophobic bigoted xenophobes, with no concept or interest in the peasants they represent.
Social progress is alien to them, as are policies that actually do some benefit to poor people. And their constant attempts to dismantle the welfare system show that they have no knowledge of what it actually means to live on it.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
The Shadows Devour You.
Whoa! Back up?
Homophobic bigoted xenophobes?
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Some things never change. They've always been that way. The Lib Dems are the only major party that actually appreciates the benefits that immigrants bring, where as Cameron and other right wingers prefer to bleat on about "Britishness".
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
The Shadows Devour You.
Hmm... did the Conservatives ever enact that immigration cap? I was dreading that, its one of the few areas I believe Labour was genuinely right (though of course the Lib Dems had a much better plan, actually having a plan for bringing jobs and homes to immigrants in a way that was good for everyone, while it seems all the major parties can do is use a sieve to catch running water or try to cap a pressure cooker.)
edited 6th May '11 6:16:31 PM by GameChainsaw
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
I don't think they've enacted it yet, but there have been more pressing issues than that hot potato lately.
T He problem with immigration isn't that too many are coming here, but that the process makes it nigh impossible for asylum seekers to actually get jobs, so they have no choice but to go off the grid or seek paid work via less legal means. That's where the reform is needed, so that hell holes like Pollok and Maryhill in Glasgow aren't just dumping grounds for people no one in power wants anything to do with, but who can't safely go anywhere else.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
The Shadows Devour You.
What I want to know is, why didn't Labour do anything to sort that out in their 12 years in power. They've had over a decade to sort that out.
This is what I mean. Labour seems as neglectful as the Conservatives when it comes to carrying out their duties to the vulnerable. If not more, in some cases, through sheer incompetence and lack of attention to detail. This is why we need to break the two party system.
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Absolutely agree, and this is why it's such a damn shame to me that the Lib Dems didn't live up to their potential. I genuinely thought they had a chance at a real result last time out, and I genuinely believed Clegg had integrity. They've shot themselves in the foot, and could have set themselves back a decade or two. I'll certainly vote for them again in the general election next time, the Scottish one being a half protest vote, half genuine belief that Alex Salmond is doing a good job as First Minister (my list vote went to the Greens), but others might not return to them.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Of course, it's in the Labour/Conservative interest to keep at the idea of the two party system, just as it's the third-party interest to break it (or to supplant Labour or the Tories).
AV could have been a step forward... but it wasn't, so I'll shut up about that. Now, as for it's benefit on tactical voting...
The same thing happened in Germany when Merkel became chancellor:
- Vote is split pretty evenly between leftists, center-leftists, and rightists.
- Rather than compromise with each other, one of the leftist factions snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by allying with the rightists.
- Not content with this level of incompetence, even though their partisans have greater political support among voters, they accept the SUBMISSIVE role in the coalition and hand the executive position to the rightists.
WHY does this happen so often?
Because they're actually right-wing parties who agree with the conservative factions, they just happen to have left-of-center voters?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Or to be more precise, a right-leaning party leadership and left-leaning members/voters, as with the Lib Dems in the UK. That suggests one of three things - (a) the leadership is basically being dishonest and hiding its true views to avoid scaring away members/voters(b) the leadership is incompetent in getting its true beliefs across or (c) it's an example of how everyone tends to become more conservative when actually in power.
V
Or (d) The Party Leadership are in a different faction to the membership.
As I see it, the Party Leadership are "Liberals" (as in the Liberal Party) and the membership/votership are "Democrats" (from the SDP).
edited 7th May '11 12:59:43 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
I'm afraid my exposure to the AV campaigns was somewhat minimal (on account of being kind of out of it for the past month or so due to my general anxiety disorder). Just what was the 'No To AV' campaign lying about?
What's precedent ever done for us?
Here's a pro-AV analysis of an anti-AV leaflet, which highlights their grievances with the no campaign: [1]
Sneering Imperialist
It's depressing to think that people actually fell for that bullshit.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
The Paedofinder General
@Game Chainsaw
Healthcare Reform by the Tories was being marketed as more 'choice' for the patient. However the reforms are designed to encourage greater involvement from the private sector. They were plans to encourage competition.
So really it is privatisation and dismantling of NHS.
However:
Royal College of Nursing voted no confidence in the Health Secretary's (Andrew Lansley) plans.
Edit:
Downing Street will not fly the EU flag over Number 10 during Europe Day on Monday unlike previous years. Hmmm...
edited 7th May '11 12:30:43 PM by IanExMachina
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
The Shadows Devour You.
Hmm...
Gods damn it, between the two major parties, this country will be in smouldering ruins by 2050.
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
vigilantly taxonomish
Nah, it won't. The country's weathered worse than this.
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So that's what this does
If the Lib Dems had gotten into bed with Labour I would have been sickened.
Aside from forcing through tripling tuition fees (Yes, I mean Labour) they broke just about every promise from the last time they were elected. They needed to lose power because it was the only way they would take the public's objections seriously.
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
I wish Labour would have a change of generations in the party leadership and that they'd move the party towards the European Green-Left. That'd be nice and, based on what I've seen and heard of British opinions on many issues, they'd probably win the next election.
'Course, they'd have to describe their new direction as something else than "European Green-Left" 'cause Brits don't seem to like continental Europe (or rather, they don't like the thought of continental politics creeping into their system) of the Left or Green movements very much.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
V
Several wars will do that, and a constant fear of Invasion* , dating back centuries. And I'd guess, the British at heart prefer "conservation" to "Green", conservation involves people doing things themselves to make things better (and bring them back to how they used to be), without forcing people to do anything.
Keep Rolling On
I like Europe.
But yeah, Labour probably needed to lose power; it isn't great that the alternative is the Conservatives, but h.
edited 7th May '11 2:17:39 PM by AllanAssiduity
Does anybody know what direction Labour will take now?
Under an AV vote in 2015, Conservatives wouldn't be on my list at all. I'd rather vote for an independent.
I think I can "get" the idea that a lack of honesty might be why the Lib Dems took such a big hit, but... oh, well. Just about the only good thing to come of yesterday the 5th of May was Labour gains. The SNP's gains might be a shame, if it leads to Scottish independence... not that it matters a lot if they do.
edited 6th May '11 5:48:34 PM by AllanAssiduity