Aquaman's power actually IS useless

I was reading over Heart Is an Awesome Power and I got to the bit about Aquaman and his ability to control the innumerable creatures of the sea, including the giant Chtulu monsters that dwell at the very bottom in 500+ atmospheres of pressure of water (first section in the comics tab). Now, that all sounded really good and made me think twice about the guy. Then, I took a third look at him and realized there isn't much actually going for him.

Now, I'll admit that being the king of a civilization that can move freely in that kind of water pressure would give him super strength and command of an army with super strength (the Atlantians themselves)is pretty awesome. However, in a world where super strength or some supliment for it is par for the course, having super strength is just par for the course. And being in charge of the sea creatures? That's pretty pathetic and let me start with the giant uber monsters that he supposedly commands.

First off: when you look at a chart of ocean life and where it's located, you get a massive drop in density after a certain depth. The deepest fish swims to 7,000 meters below sea level, which means that anything deeper has to survive on something smaller or be a scavenger. If we are looking for something that's a giant super squid, it would have to live a VERY dorment life too survive on what little nutrients fall down that far or live a VERY short life to speed across the dark pit of the ocean and get nutrients (probably only a long enough life to reproduce).

If its a dormant life, bringing it to the surface to battle would be like waking a coma patient for a 10-mile run. Not only would it's muscles be useless and unresponsive, it would take years of PT to get it to that physical level.

If its the short life, it might be able to help Aquaman or be too busy searching for the small scraps of food, which are the only things its ever evolved to eating. (Eating people won't count if it's digestive system can even swallow them)

Second: Even if you ignore issue #1, its trip to the surface will cause MASSIVE decompression, as its species's entire existence was in 500+ atmosphere's of pressure.

Third: Even if you ignore issue #2, the instant it gets hit by daylight, it's going to suffer from horrible radiation burns. This is because, living at the bottom of the ocean, it has never had to deal with UV rays. Heck, the light from the moon may be enough to roast it alive.

Fourth: Even if you ignore issue #3, you must realize that the instant this thing gets to the surface, it wouldn't know which way was up. Living in the dark abyss of the sea floor, it'd never have evolved eyes nor ears. Its primary method would be feeling water currents, which there are none of once you're out of the ocean. Could it have a sense of smell? Maybe. But in a world of unfamiliar scents, you're looking at a sense that'd probably work against it.

Fifth: Even if you ignore issue #4, the composition of gases in the air at the surface is drastically different than the composition of gases at the bottom of the ocean. Mix that in with the different bacteria strains floating around and Chtulu is dead in a heartbeat.

Sixth: Even if you ignore issue #5, you will face the most critical reason why commanding sea creatures is a USELESS power for battles on land. The moment, the very moment it breaks the surface and begins its terrible rampage that it got its muscles in shape for, survived decompression for, found a way to tolerate radiation for, developed a new sense for, built up its immune system and tolerance to poisonous gases for, you are left with one crippling weakness.

IT. COULDN'T. BREATH.

This monster, living for eons out of the sight of man, would never, ever, possibly, on your life, have developed lungs and anything that size couldn't survive without oxygen for very long. In short, the next time you're worried about Aquaman's army of sharks, killer whales, sword fish, and chtulus attacking you, just remember you have an impregnable defense that they cannot break: standing on the beach, 20 feet away from the water.

That's why Aquaman's power should be removed from Heart Is an Awesome Power . If anyone disagrees and has counter arguments, I'm open to hearing them.

edited 26th Apr '11 8:55:05 AM by daveshan

Um, it doesn't look like you've argued against 2/3 of Aquaman's points, just against the page image.

So you're okay with remote mind control of sealife, but not unspeakably ancient sea monsters that can survive on the surface?

This isn't a matter of what Aquaman should be able to do, it's a matter of what we've seen him do, canonically.◊ We know that his power is awesome because he has summoned gigantic sea monsters. Whether or not you think it should be the case, it turns out that he has an awesome power after all.

Aquaman laments. Being strong as Superman just isn't enough sometimes. Being able to talk to fish means you automatically suck.

Saying Aquaman's fish telepathy is lackluster is like saying water isn't really blue. It is apparent to anyone who really thinks about it. Strong as Superman? Really, that's been demonstrated? Okay, comics change and DC has been desperate to make Aquaman liked. That doesn't change the fact that fish control's limited use.

It has some mundane uses, but if he's really as strong as Superman and lacks the strength for the task, the fish can't help. Can't stop a tidal wave, no whale's going to do it either. If he's that strong and can't punch out an enemy, then he better hope that they are not only susceptible to toxins, but that they are stupid enough to expose their soft tissues to toxins and he better live with the fact his fish friends will likely be squashed in the process. About the only useful things his fish can do is gather information, possibly provide him some stealth, and give him extra hands when saving drowning land lubbers. You know, the same assistance he can just ask his kingdom for. Talking to fish could be helpful for protecting them from people, and protecting people from fish, or he could just get in between them with his Superman strength!. By filling the oceans with new creatures, DC acknowledges that fish are lacking. Superman, you don't know what lives on the ocean floor? You've never been curious enough to use your tunnel vision on the water before?

edited 27th Apr '11 11:41:40 AM by IndirectActiveTransport

You're thinking WAY too hard about this.

Aquaman is fun. End of story.

See this post.....

This is why we have Angry Aquaman who lops off his own hand to save his son, Hammy Aquaman who finds everything outrageous, and and crazy Aquaman who wrecked a Marvel (well an evil twin of one the Marvels) in fricking fistfight.

That last one was awesome by the way.

Keep saying Aquaman sucks people, and he will keep dishing out the Awesome. Eventually the moon will be next. 0_0

edited 26th Apr '11 5:49:11 PM by HandsomeRob

As far as the unspeakable cosmic horrors on the sea bottom... A Wizard Did It. Seriously. The DCU is utterly crawling with magic, Atlantis more than most spots. Boom, suddenly decompression, evolution, etc., are not a problem. *shrug*

Aquaman's never been that useless, folks, except for in that stupid Superfriends cartoon. Never Live It Down, indeed.

edited 26th Apr '11 6:34:17 PM by TeChameleon

That's only if you ignore the standard Power Creep, Power Seep that every character inevitably undergoes. Exploring the speculative depths of what a character could do with their power, rather than what they are expressly stated to do is par for the course in comics.

Also, not every superhero has the standard Stock Superpowers (ie: can fly, is super strong, is invulnerable), so summoning a school of piranha or toxic jellyfish, would come tremendously in handy. It's like saying Wolverine's claws are useless because most people can fly and shoot Eye Beams.

And hell, when you get right down to it, I'd pick Aquaman over Wolverine in a fight. His fish would never go hungry.

edited 26th Apr '11 8:45:12 PM by KingZeal

Just make sure the fight isn't decided by some website voting, no matter how illogical the outcome would be (that Lobo vs Wolverine fight).

By filling the ocean with strange monsters, DC created an ocean full of strange monsters to have adventures in. It brought the DC Comics ocean into line with the DC Comics surface, which you may have noticed is also full of strange monsters. Regardless of whether or not they had a superhero who would depend on them, gargantuan sea monsters just make sense to add to a kitchen-sink fantasy universe.

And even if this addition were somehow an acknowledgement that "talks to fish" is a lame power on its own, the fact that they did it means that "talks to fish" is now an incredible power in the DCU, making Aquaman a perfect example of the trope.

If you stop to think about it, running at 100 miles per hour would destroy your body, even if you didn't trip on something. I guess that means the Flash's powers suck, too. Oh, wait - he lives in a world with the Speed Force, which also grants him the required secondary powers. Is adding the Speed Force to make "runs really fast" viable any less silly than adding gargantuan Godzilla monsters to make "talks to fish" more useful?

Another aside- complaining that 'talks to/controls fish' is useless on land is like complaining that Wonder Woman is useless In Space because she can't use her powers properly, since she needs a spacesuit (the usual 'bullets and bracelets' isn't going to work too hot when blocking the bullet/laser/whatever rips your suit worse than letting it hit would have).

Aquaman is an undersea hero. He was created in an era when sea-based shipping was far more prominent in most peoples' minds than it is now, and adventure on the high seas (as opposed to the Savage Sword of Aquaman-era adventures, which were more adventure under the high seas) still had a certain appeal. Now, since most people just fly when they're travelling, the ocean is simply not a part of the zeitgeist. Not like it used to be. (Random aside: I've crossed the Atlantic by sea once. Beats the hell out of flying if you have the time)

Honestly... and I say this not having read a lot of Aquaman, in all honesty- so many comics, so little time >.<... I kind of wonder what would happen with the character if an author who had actually worked at sea for a while got ahold of him. It gives you a different perspective on things.

Aquaman being based in Detroit was still flat-out stupid, though.

The difference between Aquaman's power and Wonder Woman needing a spacesuit is because of where most battles are fought. If 90%+ of battles took place in space, I wouldn't bank on WW for the life of me.

Now, as far as what everyone was talking about (how DC's created these magic monsters) I was addressing the issue of the trope having Aquaman's power listed under Heart Is an Awesome Power. I know, in the comics, a wave of the hand and a Chtulhu that can make it through all six conditions will emerge, but the trope's justification for it being a useful power is wrong.

Something I've been wondering: does Aquaman's "talk to/control aquatic animals" power include all the little single-cell organisms that swim around inside people's bodies? 'Cause if it does, that opens up some disturbing possibilities.

I'm honestly having a hard time parsing your objection here, Dave. You seem to be saying that Aquaman doesn't qualify under Heart Is an Awesome Power because Cthulhoids don't make sense and super strength is a Stock Superpower in the DCU..?

Uhm...

Depending on the Writer, Aquaman could probably flatten the surface world with a command. The guy is King of the Seven Seas, heir to enough magic and tech to crack the planet like an egg. Super strength may be a Stock Superpower, but it's hardly as common as all that in the DCU- even the most powerful governments tend to have a bare handful of super-soldier types working for them, usually in fairly elite units like Checkmate. Combine that fact with the fact that all Atlanteans have tank-chucking levels of strength, and a war between Atlantis and the surface world (the entire surface world) really doesn't look like such a good idea, especially since Atlanteans aren't dumb and will quite happily shoot you if pummeling you isn't an option.

And that's before you get the giant freaking Kaiju into the mix. Sure, he can't summon standard-issue fish on land, but the entire DCU is a Fantasy Kitchen Sink and Cthulhoids honestly shouldn't come as that much of a surprise.

You're also ignoring the 'all DCU (Earth) life evolved from sea life and therefore Aquaman can melt their brains' aspect of things. So. The guy can talk to fish, fine. He can also beat a tank crew to death with their own tank, summon and control (magic) sea monsters the size of buildings that can function quite comfortably on land, and/or melt your brain. Or just summon his already-individually-superhuman, ultra techno-magical army to curbstomp you. Oh, and he has (significant) superhuman reflexes and durability.

So what part of this is not qualifying for Heart Is an Awesome Power?

Wait, wait. You can't qualify your argument by saying "well most fights don't take place in space/water" and then say:

That'd be like saying, "Yeah Superman is awesome, but since Kryptonite Is Everywhere, he sucks."

It's not Aquaman's fault, or the fault of his abilities, that writers like to write about shit attacking land rather than the ocean. For one thing, if you want to use that argument, we have no idea how much crap attacks the planet Earth on a daily basis just from under the sea. For all we know, Aquaman is the only thing that stops the Deep Ones from destroying our planet on a daily basis. In fact, this would actually mean that petty surface crime (bank robberies and so forth) are beneath him. You wouldn't write about Silver Surfer battling rapists in Central Park.

That has nothing to do with how "useful" his powers are. Which I already covered here. If Wolverine's only powers are "I can sense things, heal quick and slash stuff" and he's considered badass, then Aquaman already has him beat. The ability to command sea life already gives him a number of abilities that Wolverine couldn't touch.

Alright, let me try explaining this again.

I am talking about Aquaman's power of fish-control independently of the other powers and Atlantian army he has at his disposal. The reason why is because super strength and command of an army of people with super strength would never qualify as 'Heart' powers.

His aquatelepathy, on the other hand, does qualify. That's why this thread is called 'Aquaman's power actually IS useless' and not 'Aquaman actually IS useless.'

Aquaman is strong. He commands a super strong army. He's Badass enough to cut off his own hand to save his son without a second thought. I AM NOT SAYING HE IS USELESS. But, because of how drastically limited fish-control is, his aquatelepathy does not qualify as Heart Is an Awesome Power.

I hope that clears things up.

edited 27th Apr '11 9:58:59 AM by daveshan

That's still ignoring everything I just said.

Again: Aquaman's control over sea life (not just fish—all marine life) is still a useful power.

As I stated many posts ago, not every superhuman is an invulnerable flying brick. I used the example of Wolverine: how, exactly, would Wolverine fight against an entire school of thousands of piranha? What defense would Spider-man have against the deadly toxins in much marine life?

Aquaman's ability to command marine life is plenty useful as long as the writers aren't being lazy.

This is like saying Batman is useless just because he can't outrun the Flash, or knock Wonder Woman out with a batarang.

Not having ever read Aquaman, I'm going to agree that Dave's objections make no sense.

Aquaman commands giant monsters, as Durazno pointed out. That makes his aquatelepathy awesomeley powerful and useful.

But ignore that. Let's assume the DCU's oceans have the same sea life as Quadwal -3760.925, plus Atlanteans.

Most global trade is carried out by sea, since planes cannot carry large volumes of freight across oceans, and in many cases going by sea is faster than going over land even if the cargo is going to somewhere on the same landmass. Since Aquaman commands whales and giant squids, he can overturn and sink all those ships, thus ending trade.

Hence, simply by using his powers in the manner familiar to the average person, he can literally hold the world to ransom.

King Zeal: Superman can just get 20 feet above or away from water and the sea creatures couldn't touch him. That was reason #6 that fish-control is useless. If he needed to attack Aquaman directly, he'd just wait for Aquaman to surface again and bolt over to him in an instant. If Aquaman doesn't surface again, then he may as well be dead; same end result.

Napoleon: Batman's power is mostly his martial arts and resourcefulness. Also, I'm not saying Aquaman is useless. Just that fish-control does not qualify as Heart Is an Awesome Power.

Vampire: Ok, now THAT is the first argument I've heard in favor of his power. Though we could counter by mass polluting our trade routes and making it horribly unsafe for marine life, that'd cost a great deal of time and resources. Well, though that may make it not a useless power, it still not awesome.

edited 27th Apr '11 4:08:21 PM by daveshan

Saying fish control is useless because it can't harm Superman is pretty extreme. 99% of ALL THINGS in the DCU can't hurt Superman, period.

Ugh... Napoleon...

Here's the point -> *

...............................................Here's where you shot -> *

No, your points are all over the place. You'll basically latch onto any strawman to argue his powers are useless. So it IS hard to aim correctly at them.

I'm not sure what this thread is about anymore, so I'm just going to point this out from the Heart Is Awesome article:

I read this as saying that the power doesn't have to be useful all the time to qualify as Heart Is Awesome. So maybe fish-telepathy won't be useful in most land-based situations, but it is extremely useful under "certain conditions". Therefore fish-telepathy qualifies as Heart Is an Awesome Power.