Red Vs Blue General Discussion

The whole Twitter comment was this

Jeff retired, Casey isn't officially part of the band, and they don't want "outsiders."

That's seems kind of sh-tty.

Still, it's not hard to just let the composers do all the music - or bring in old collaborators such as Jeff and Casey that fit under "RVB family" and "emotionally involved in the show's 20 years". For 14 years, the only pre-existing music was this one - and when another exception emerged during the Carolina-Tex fight in season 15, likewise it was for Rule of Funny. Even Zero, which wound having two pre-existing songs, including the one in the opening, had the same rapper contributing four originals. Relying on stock music seems more like a Youtube channel afraid of copyright strikes rather than a company that has been doing this for 20 years.

(and I had seen people complain about RT suddenly pulling old episodes from Youtube - and searching for the S15 episode I mentioned made me discover every episode between seasons 6 and 16 has been made private, presumably to force people to watch on RT's website)

Fair enough on the first point.

I have mixed feelings on the second. I just saw a video with the thumbnail "ITS OVER." Uploader made a case that RT is sticking it to the small committed fanbase who enjoyed the no longer money making series.

To me though the thing is RVB has existed long before Youtube. We don't own it just because its for free on Youtube. It was on DVD way before this happened and Blu-Ray as well.

Yeah it sucks from a consumer perspective but there have been methods for watching RVB free for a decade. People complaining about not having it for free and using it as another criticism of Rooster Teeth sound like they're complaining about not being entitled to their free coffee from Starbucks to me.

Frankly I was pleasantly surprised to see most of the seasons compiled on Youtube when I did. I know of few other long running TV series that are available completely for free on Youtube.

Edited by FOFD on Oct 5th 2023 at 8:53:55 AM

It is for free on RT's website, not locked behind the FIRST paywall. At most the inconvenience are ads and the pop-up asking to log in\create an account. But Youtube is certainly the biggest gateway, specially late arrivals such as myself (who first watched in 2017). The one remaining 'complete' video, for Season 1, has over 4 million views, and while the fandom's pechant for rewatching plays a big part, a healthy share could've been newcomers, including those recording reaction videos. Too bad Youtube probably not paying enough and all corporate decisions led to their removal.

I will make my first post here by saying that I adore Red vs Blue. Honestly, this was my true introduction to the lore of Halo. This stupid show about a bunch of idiots arguing became a heartwarming, epic, hilarious, emotional and clever action comedy that has meant so much to me.

When people talk Red vs Blue, they love the characters. They love the Reds and Blues. They love Agent Washington. The love the Meta. And so I would love to get into this discussion.

Maybe I should describe my experience with this show and how it did so much right. The thing I wanna get to will be this.

Part 1: How to do a tone shift.

Go for it.

Lot's of various shows and series eventually will incorporate a tone shift into their narrative. Usually in the form of "Darker and Edgier" but this can be hard to pull off if you don't do it well. A lot of various shows have examples of this where a random character tends to die, the types of stories get more mature, there's more violence, there's more drama..... darker and edgier. A lot of stories, do this approach.

And so does Red vs Blue. But Red vs Blue does it better than a lot of stories. When we first see this show, in the first five seasons, we are left the entire time not knowing what the story is actually about. We don't know who the Freelancers are, what their missions are about, why these random soldiers are even here??? We have no idea. And it remained this way for multiple seasons. And then in Season 6, Agent Washington comes out and says "Yeah, you're not real soldiers. You're all a bunch of living test dummies for us. And now you're about to help me hunt down a guy who is very good at killing people." WTF? Imagine if you were a teenager watching this transition for the first time? Imagine if suddenly you were told that these random idiots were part of this crazy spec ops operation. Imagine having your whole world blown apart like that? On top of that, Red vs Blue: Reconstruction does a great job at establishing the stakes. In the Blood Gulch Chronicles our heroes had to face various misadventures with twists and perils, and all of the sudden this is a dark sci fi action show where people can die if they get looked at wrong.

And a lot of this can also be attributed to our awesome characters, especially the main villain for these next three seasons. And for a character who isn't really that important to the story after this point, the main villain called The Meta... leaves quite an impact. The Meta is the strongest character our heroes have ever faced up to this point. He's also completely mute and never talks which does a great job at separating him from the rest of the characters. This is a character the heroes can't just sass off and make fun of, because the Meta will kill them if they are not careful. The presentation of this guy is on point. And the way that the Meta is used in this narrative, dramatically helps with this tone shift being as effective as it is.

Since this has been dead for a while I'll continue if that's okay.

The Meta stands out as the best villain because of how perfectly executed he was. Characters like Felix, Locus and Temple don't have as much presence as villains. Plus they are either too strong (mercenaries and Genkins) or way too weak (Temple.) In the Chorus Trilogy, when we first meet Felix he is a sassy rogue and then he becomes a cartoonishly over the top evil person who monologues and the more he shows up the less scary he becomes. In fact, I don't recall if he kills anyone on screen in a dramatic manner aside from some space pirates at the beginning of Season 13. And because he's less scary I don't really treat him as seriously as much as I should. Locus is a bit better but he's also a lot more predictable. From the first few episodes we meet him, it's pretty apparent what his character trait is, the obedient killer soldier. And he only gets more interesting when he starts to question his own evilness. But worst of all, both of these characters are too strong for our heroes to actually fight. They have to resort to some wackiness to actually win, which is kind of cool, but not the same. See a lot of people love these two, but I don't. Because their best qualities just come from the Meta.

Temple is even worse! He is literally just a bad guy. His motivation is revenge on the world and monologuing and like quoting speeches. He's too weak to provide a meaningful threat and his contrast with the other characters isn't as explored as it lends itself to be. He's more of a foil than a villain. Maybe that's the point. I don't know. Also Genkins is just murderously evil and has like no character traits. So he's pretty forgettable.

Meta is the villain that is perfectly appropriate up to this point; the guy who kills the characters that the Reds and Blues already think are good, the Freelancers. And when we first see Washington, you probably wonder, why this guy isn't a good team player. Oh, it's because he doesn't know how to work as a team player. He has lived his entire life being the butt monkey and he doesn't know how to cooperate, as he instead just competes a lot of the time. We see this with other freelancers too and it's part of what starts their downfall. We see Washington gradually realize that if he's going to succeed he needs to find ways to work with others and trust other people. But the Meta doesn't do this. The Meta always tries to do everything on its own and acts like it can solo everything. And this is how the Reds and Blues manage to defeat it, simply by working together. It's incredibly satisfying to watch this villain from beginning to end.

Next up, will be an exploration of Agent Washington and why he is such a great character.

It... genuinely took me a while to remember who Genkins was when you were talking about villains. So, uh, have to say "Also Genkins is just murderously evil and has like no character traits. So he's pretty forgettable" is clearly an on-point observation.

Indeed. Funny how forgettable he is. You know who's not forgettable? Our boy Wash. Because memory is the key.

When we first meet Agent Washington he just seems to be your average serious soldier. Just a guy who just wants to complete his mission and who is not the funny man. The no nonsense type. The guy who is just a trained killer who thinks he's so much better than the random Red vs Blue soldiers. And this is fully intentional.

But then, as we learn more about him, we start to see that there is a lot of nuance to Wash. Washington, was a normal dude named David, who got recruited as the worst of the Freelancers effectively. The worst of the "good" freelancers that is. And he was a dork. A lovable goofball. The nice soft spoken guy. The sassy friend. The lovable guy with, rubber duckies in his locker. And you know what happened to this guy? He got fucked up!

His brain was like experimented on and he had all these traumatic flashbacks forced into his head and he was infected by an A.I. that tried to murder itself in his head. And all his teammates, they either abandoned him or betrayed him. He was shot in the back and left for dead. And now you realize that this isn't just some soldier who follows orders and completes his mission. This is a broken man who has been wronged by the world and manipulated his entire life. And he's not a stable person.

Originally, he just joins the Reds and Blues for convenience. And he betrays them later, for convenience. And he's even willing to try to work with the villain of this story because he thinks he can use that to get his life back together. And eventually he has to confront the facts that he has to work with the heroes if he wants to survive and we see him gradually restore his confidence and comradery with others in a very satisfying manner.

And even though we have been discussing Washington a lot, he's not the only character to get an awesome character arc. Because believe it or not, one of the most developed characters across this arc, is Sarge.

Edited by Patar136 on Dec 13th 2023 at 7:41:20 AM

Felix to me is the best - he's just such a foil to Tucker and by extension the Sociopathic Comedy the franchise was built on. There's no reason to distrust him when he shows up, he's just as comedic as the Reds and Blues. Then the big twist, he catches Tucker's grenade, and all of his personality traits... stay the same. He talks a lot. He can back it up. When Tucker comes at him he puts him on the ground. When Season 12 starts Felix turns up the charm and talks his way into a prisoner transport. Felix takes all of the charismatic energy Tucker has and flips it into a villainous role. I love that they took this guy who acts like an asshole but made him skilled enough to destroy Tucker in a fight.

Locus I didn't like as much. I think he was headed in an interesting direction being a "redeemed" evil team mate, but unfortunately his actor left the company IIRC and he didn't come back for Seasons 14-16.

The Meta was perfectly fine as a threatening presence and a physical wall. Physical menace is a common trait among villains. I don't think it would have worked as well if Tex and Washington hadn't reentered the plot though.

Temple was perfectly capable of coordinating a team to ruin the Reds and Blues' reputations.

Washington be best boi. No argument there. Someone else put it a fancy way, but I think Washington saved this show from mediocrity, gave it a level of depth it would have lacked otherwise and forced the Reds and Blues to grow as characters.

Locus does appear in Season 14 (three episodes on the origins of the mercenaries), and Season 15 (enters the plot halfway through). He is indeed absent from 16, but has brief appearances in the following one (the last before his VA left RT, and somehow vanished altogether).

Regarding Genkins, both he and Zero are somehow RVB doing again its first villain, O'Malley, an antagonist who is seemingly simply evil. But they also reflect different approaches and results: O'Malley and Genkins were hammy Card Carrying Villains that thus compensated the simple characterization by being fun to watch. Zero, like the season as a whole, tried to play everything completely straight, and thus was bland and forgettable, with his only differential being the fight capabilities.

And only next year we'll see how the RVB story ends, behind a paywall, no less.

I think the appeal of the villains comes down to some personal taste but I love how the Meta was built up to naturally and plays such a pivotal role by being the only character without dialogue.

As for Sarge, Sarge in the Blood Gulch Chronicles was one of the most stock characters you can ever write. He was very bare bones with only two motivations.

Sarge: Son, the only thing I need to do is stay red and die.

He was a simple man.

But then, the time skip happens and the story gets more serious with escalation. And we start to see his fellow soldiers start to mock him a bit more. He gets treated as more of an outright joke by people, including the Freelancers like Wash, and this helps bring him down several pegs. He starts having to actually cooperate with others and he starts to build a personality. And we see him, most of all, realize that his life has been a lie. And this reveal is incredibly significant for him because it finally serves as the point that makes him go from comedic and stupid leader to actual competent if short sighted one.

Sarge also, gets to lay the final blow on the Meta, with the big cat looking car. And that's awesome.

Next up, whenever I return, plot progression and how it's best in the Freelancer Arcs.

Agree on that about the Meta, as while I reflected on the villains deemed underwhelming, it comes around that the Meta being 'flat' is not an issue: him not speaking combined with the fact that at times his behavior barely seems human makes him absolutely frightening.

The discussion on character development shows all the strengths on the show's writing, as even if more serious plots arrived the show never stopped being a comedy. To survive when shoved into dramatic and dangerous plots, the incredibly incompetent soldiers step up as combatants and as actual people rather than simple vehicles to deliver jokes... while not dropping the quirky personalities that made viewers care about them, and in fact made the cast even funnier contrasted with the straight-laced newcomers.

Variety says the last season of Red Vs Blue is gonna be retooled into a movie:

https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/red-vs-blue-restoration-movie-release-date-rooster-teeth-shutdown-1235954045/

Bad move.

Also how do you get updates so fast, I swear you make/update theeads like lightning.

The seasons are practically movies anyway, they’re just releasing it all at once in this case, probably to get it out before things go under.

It feels so weird. Rooster Teeth started with Red vs Blue. It makes sense that it ends with it.

Suck it RWBY

Oh gosh who said that >.>

Trailer for Restoration.

The timeline of the season is rather ambiguous, but I guess it either takes place before Season 15 or the stories past Chorus are no longer canon. The Meta has returned, being Epsilon-Sigma (Miles Luna doing a damn good job of impersonating Elijah Wood) possessing Tucker through the Meta's armor. I can't quite tell if Epsilon is alive or not, may just be a recording, but given that he knows what's happening...yeah hopefully they don't go back on his sacrifice. And yeah, poor Tucker. Please let him come out of this alive.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:05:37 AM

Oh yeah, I was supposed to talk about this show and why it rocks. At least, the first few seasons.

Part III: Plot Progression

Part of what made this show as great as it was came down to the simple yet effective ways in which the plot came together. It feels like stuff that was set up in the earliest seasons actually ended up getting developed all the way into season 10. I love that Epsilon's voice of reason in season 9 is Tucker of all people, or rather Tucker's manifestation who convinces Church that he has to get over his crazy girlfriend and help him realize that he needs to move on. I love that Simmons as early on as 6 is the one to say that they can't copy and A.I. And this ends up being a major plot point later. Stuff like this shows that the creators aren't just putting jokes in for fun they are being super creative. The whole show felt super tight. And a lot of people think it could have ended at Season 10. And I don't really blame em. Because the story started to get a bit muddled as it arrived to Seasons 11-13.

And I actually like these seasons a lot. Tucker gets to become an actual protagonist who gets to become an actual leader. Donut gets to take down the killer robot Dos.0 when it turns on them all. Caboose's robot Freckles gets to be upgraded to his personal assault rifle and it allows him to mow through enemies easily. And even stuff like the newcomer Doyle getting a heroic sacrifice that feels really emotionally satisfying. But it's clear that there were some issues that made things feel wanky.

Season 11 starts with our characters in a boxed canyon in the middle of nowhere. And while it brought the series back to its roots the story didn't seem to have an end point. The story would have ended with the characters getting rescued, what happens now? Well then it turns out that they are actually on this planet engaged with a civil war and they end up having to fight as part of both factions without realizing that they are going to kill one another. But then as soon as they meet each other, they would eventually stop fighting. So once again, you have to ask, What happens now? Well then, the mercenaries turn out to be teamed up and they are actually as strong as freelancers if not stronger since they work for the bad guy from those freelancer arcs. And then that guy brings back this one evil mercenary who hates the freelancers because, he was this random one off minion, who got burned by a flamethrower. He had no character traits. He was a one off character, and then he dies. So what happens now?

This story just kind of felt a little messy, is all I am saying.

Everything from the Freelancer saga felt very clearly connected. It felt as if the story was naturally progressing to finding the director and there was all this buildup that felt natural with a lot of character arcs that came across as satisfying. And this is shown with the best of the freelancers, Carolina.

Now listen, you like Carolina. Anybody who watches Red vs Blue, likes Carolina. Because she ran off the rule of cool. She got to be this fucking blue ninja person! However, the newer seasons of Red vs Blue started to dial back the power of these freelancers and they became less effective. Locus and Felix are able to stand eye to eye to them, as if they aren't that strong. The freelancers even get duped by Temple, like they're not that strong. And this isn't something that really existed before and it's something you only start to notice now. I guess she was a little too strong.

So I finally saw the trailer, not reading any of the posts yet before giving thoughts:

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 2nd 2024 at 3:01:58 PM

A little thing they posted on their channel.

Does anyone know what will happen to the episodes posted on YouTube when RT shuts down?

Probably still be there, unless WB decides to shutter all RT accounts even if it costs them nothing