What to do now.: Troper Tales.Fetish Fuel

Aunt Zelda: What the other wiki has is completely irrelevant. We have no association with them and we don't operate under their rules.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I wish it could stay up as is, but I realize the possibility of convincing FE to do so is nil, so at the very least can be some warning and a set cut time, like with the IJBM board?

Emperor Wu liked cake, but not exploding cake!

It's still a good analogy. Why would we need to worry about being a lot less explicit than them?

As I already said, I would prefer cutting the whole think, over some judgemental, discriminating rule bout how some fetishes are unacceptable, but to be honest, from a moral standpoint, I see where people who want to keep it are coming from.

This thread talked about "the fetishists", making it sound like some random group of perverts came to the site, added a few FF entries each, and went away. But the truth is that those entries were written by tropers, and cutting them would send a strong value-judgemental message that they did something wrong.

Why exactly? Because some people in a thread said "Squick"?

edited 3rd Feb '11 1:54:43 AM by EternalSeptember

So what would this move mean for Fetish Fuel Station Attendant?

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Nothing really becides a few link cleanups that trope is

has nothing really to do with tropers's experiences.

edited 3rd Feb '11 1:48:23 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Zel honey, I'm upset too (without going into details, Fetish Fuel has always been a place of safety for me and now I'm losing it. It hurts quite a bit.) but please calm down? Slippery slope arguments don't really help and hey, we'll always have the Kink Meme.

IAWTC.

And it really is about the squick-factor.

Some comments from both this and the original thread on getting rid of Troper Tales pages:

~ "gets really creepy at times"

~ "that's not worth policing"

~ "Just the fact that I have had to create FF subpages for some of the works I'm watching just to get that gunk off their main pages made me feel dirty."

~ "Fetish Fuel goes. I keep my crazy fetishes a secret. So should other Tropers."

~ "Fetish Fuel can die in a fire. Axe all the creepy Troper Tales = fine by me."

~ "People are actually defending Fetish Fuel? Why do we need to know what you whack off to?"

~ "been dancing around its squickiness for years now, and should finally just go ahead and dump it."

~ "No one wants to know what turns you on. Not even me (To give you a hint at what I like, it doesn't involve Nudity, Tentacles or other disturbing things)."

~ "And no, I don't feel guilt for the poor, helpless paraphilics who can't share their various and sundry fetishes."

Yep, completely fair, balanced, rational arguments, those. (-_-;)

We can provide more if ya want

1. Listing your fetish or discussing them is not what TV Tropes is about. (It's about tropes!) This makes them supperfluous at best, and quite disposable when they start squicking people.

2. The listing of various fetishes and of other creepy content doesn't reflect well on the wiki as a whole.

3. And yes, the policing. It's one thing to say "dont keep it and police it more" but the people who want to keep it aren't exactly volunteering by the dozen to patrol the entire Troper Tale section. And it's certainly not the people who want it gone who will begin the job of Wiki Curator to those sections.

4. Why should these be held to a lower standard than any other wiki page?

edited 3rd Feb '11 4:36:54 AM by Ghilz

I would police it and delete creepy examples, but I'm scared of that "You're being prejudiced against lolicon/shotacon/furries" argument.

Point to consider: There are several works that have Fetish Fuel as a central element of their design and/or many of their characters (in which case, only some of them qualify for being a proper Fetish Fuel Station Attendant), usually alongside "mainstream" fanservice.

Cases in point: Mahou Sensei Negima, Soul Series (Ivy, Taki, Sophitia, we're looking at you), and Street Fighter (Chunli and Cammy, to start with).

So we need to consider what to do with the existing Fetish Fuel pages for such works: Relocating them to the main page would not only clutter it, but has a high likelihood of discouraging the more... conservative viewers from said pages. An alternative would be making a dedicated "Fetish Fuel" namespace, which I believe we used to have, though I'm not sure what became of it.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

What you are referring to is pretty much Fanservice. Put it there. Or Ms. Fanservice

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:07:19 AM by Ghilz

1. Neither are we about ,, or , but it is still not enough reason to cut a whole namespace.

2. This sounds like an awfully appropriate starting point for a Slippery Slope. There will always be people who will find a reason to bash TV Tropes. If we listen to them, what gets removed next? All the other non-trope namespaces? Or actual tropes from This Index Is Kinky? If people start mocking us because our Twilight page is too neutral, will we make it more negative, or cut it?

3. Maybe because those who want the "creepy examples" gone or the whole namespace removed, are the same people, in contrast with those who think that no "creepy" examples should be removed. Any random troper can "police" the page in the sense of cutting flamewars, reverting vandals, etc, but there is no need to decide what is a taboo topic for us.

4. Why should they be held to a higher standard? We have tropes about fetishes, and pages about non-tropes, and they are both allowed, but when the two meets, why is it suddenly unacceptable?

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:07:53 AM by EternalSeptember

A Fanservice Name Space would probably satisfy everyone I think. (It would me since the way that the pages I visit look exactly like that. a list of Fanservice moments akin to Co MA.)

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:23:04 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

& There is an important difference between Fetish Fuel (and consequentially, Fetish Fuel Tropes aka Turn On Tropes) and Fanservice. Confusing the two is a rather easy error to commit, and one which I unfortunately did fall afoul of in the past. This is not the case here, though.

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:21:17 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Was just saying coz all the examples in your post were Fanservice (Ie: Character who show lots of skin)

Mahou Sensei Negima Fetish Fuel page comes across as one (minus the Natter and a few things here and there.) Separated by chapter and mostly a list of the really huge Fanservice moments which I really don't want to lose.

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:52:59 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Fine. Bye-bye, fun article.

Ta-da! It's fairly new and amateurish, but at least it's something.

Bye bye, Fetish Fuel! I'm all for this. If you pro-fetish types have some arguments for keeping them, instead of complaining that those against them just don't get it, man, or that this will lead to purging of actual... yknow, tropes, share 'em.

Disclaimer from the bottom of the main Troper Tales page from the main page:

Warning: Troper Tales may not be exciting, socially acceptable, or true. Please be sensible.

I notice that just when it's finally getting cleaned up... we've got linked by a football site, of all places. http://footballoutsiders.com/scramble/2011/super-bowl-xlv-prop-bet-extravaganza, not very far down.

Good riddance.

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

I do not believe a Wikia substitute will survive for long.

I you had looked closer at those examples, you'll find that there's a considerable amount of non-fanservice Turn On Tropes in there too. Just because fanservice often overlaps with Turn On Tropes does not mean the two are equivalent.

While I'll admit that the contributors to this page appear to have confused fanservice and Fetish Fuel Tropes, there is a significant amount of examples of the latter in the list too.

Try as I might, I keep failing to understand what you were trying to get across in the final sentence.

edited 3rd Feb '11 8:54:53 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Off-topic, but I think that quote in your sig is one of mine, Scardoll. I did the non-squeeing equivalent to squeeing when I read that. Edit: I think it's self-explanatory. See Husha's, Zelda's, and September's posts for the ones I was most directly referencing. There aren't any good arguments listed for keeping the Fetish Fuel pages. It's mainly just "Everyone is being so mean... keep it." or "If we start deleting uninformative anecdotes... NEXT THE ORWELLIAN PURITANS WILL BE DELETING SEXUAL TROPE PAGES!!!" Slippery slope this, fursecution that. (Oof. Edit 2^)

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:05:38 AM by mrrubino

In other words, stop with the Slippery Slope Fallacy and Don't Like, Don't Read arguments and try to come up with a better argument. Don't try to paint yourselves as victims either.

edit: My god, was I quoted? And in a bad way? I feel so used.

edited 3rd Feb '11 10:43:51 AM by LosingStreak