gun+ shield help

I was wondering if it is plausible to create a shield (think of the type you carry on your arm) with the sole purpose to block gunshots. The gun type would be either late stage musket/smoothbore or early stage rifles.

The idea is to have infantry create a shield wall against firearms, something i'm not sure why people never invented-unless of course it doesn't work.

I know it's a viable strategy used in conjunction with crossbows, so why not guns?

Thanks everyone.

Roman-style metal shields. Heavy, but useful against volley fire.

Guns were the end of infantry armour because they could punch through anything a man could sensibly be asked to lift; you'd either be lugging enormous slabs of metal no man could sensibly carry around, or they'd be useless. Remember, a musket ball is closer to a ballista bolt than a handheld crossbow in terms of kinetic energy. Also remember that such a slow-moving shield wall would be an easy mark for cannonballs.

edited 5th Oct '10 12:02:02 AM by Evilest_Tim

Damn, was about to edit my post, it would tire out soldiers after a while for obvious reasons. Maybe employed in city defense, but I dunno.

Anyway.

edited 5th Oct '10 12:04:03 AM by JackMackerel

^^ yeah i thought it would be something like that :/. There go my hopes of a kickass army.

Maybe the shields will be coated in magic. That's always the last play, if something doesn't work, coat it in magic.

Well, magic or ogres. Ogres are more fun!

Powered Armor could help with the weight issue.

it would, but the setting is currently alternate 1800's France with minor clockwork. And the aforementioned magic.

Also, I could look into ceramics. Perhaps two layers of lightweight ceramics sandwiched around a metal plate?

edited 5th Oct '10 12:19:54 AM by Carbonpillow

I don't think you'd get ceramics tough enough without getting severely Schizo Tech with your material science.

I think the idea is for the ceramic part to diffuse the impact while the metal part (hopefully) stops the bullet.

I'm not sure but i think that's how modern bulletproof material is made. There is also the bonded cotton approach which was invented around the 19th century.

Yeah, but the keyword there is "modern;" I don't think composite material would be able to do that in a time people were still using muskets. Even with modern bulletproof vests, you're still going to get injured (the idea is you won't get killed), and a 17th-century musket ball has about the same kinetic energy at the muzzle as a 5.56mm round fired from a modern M16.

Also, I imagine even if it doesn't penetrate, with the technology available you'd probably just kill or injure the shieldbearer with spalling metal and ceramics from the back two layers instead of direct damage. And even if you stop it, it's still going to knock the shield and bearer flat on their ass. Plus, the whole thing that a slow-moving shield wall would be an easy target for fire from heavy cannons.

edited 5th Oct '10 12:42:35 AM by Evilest_Tim

I know it's a viable strategy used in conjunction with crossbows, so why not guns?

Those would be pavisier and those shields were set down and hard to move with, so you wouldn't be advancing with melee weapons with those.

I'm not sure how much you want to follow rules of physics but you could have a horse-drawn mantlet (basically a giant shield) to protect melee soldiers as they advance.

If you really want to have something hand-held then you might need some pretty interesting technological developments or magic. Super strong metals, magical amulets, blessings, force fields, crazy suicide troops to screen your more important melee fighters...

Yes, size and weight are issues but the concept is not impossible, modern assault rifle AP rounds can penetrate a half inch of steel, but if you place a fur inch gap then another plate most of them don't have the energy or remaining structural integrate. Layering metals, use of gaps, and a thin layer of leather on the back to stop [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spall Spall] and you could build a musket stopper. One material to look into is[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel cupronickle]

Well it'd stop a musket up until a few dozen paces, after that I can't see even a layered pavisier getting you into melee range.

How plausible is it to make a shield out of kevlar material?

Part of the problem is going to be that, if you're wearing the shield on your arm, then however well the shield stops the bullet, all the force is going to be delivered directly to your arm. Seems like asking for a dislocated shoulder.

Physics-wise, you'd do better with a hemispherical shield. Because the surface is curved, bullets will never strike it dead-on, and deflecting a glancing strike is much easier than absorbing a direct one because you're only absorbing part of the energy.

Of course a hemispherical shield would be astoundingly space-inefficient.

Yes, size and weight are issues but the concept is not impossible, modern assault rifle AP rounds can penetrate a half inch of steel, but if you place a fur inch gap then another plate most of them don't have the energy or remaining structural integrate. Layering metals, use of gaps, and a thin layer of leather on the back to stop [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spall Spall] and you could build a musket stopper.

Um, and how is an infantryman supposed to carry a >2 inch thick shield half of which is solid steel? Also, it's double square brackets for a link, not single.

How plausible is it to make a shield out of kevlar material?

In the age of muskets? Impossible. Look up how it's made, it requires copious quantities of highly concentrated sulphuric acid ''while being spun'.

^ well the setting is filled with Schizo Tech, clockwork, and magic. It would not be that had to justify a kevlar-like material being invented.

Magic really opens up a lot of possibilities for technology advancement. There could be cures for cancer before steam power. The power to level continents could exist but basic transportation might be a problem. Or the reverse.

edited 7th Oct '10 10:33:41 PM by Carbonpillow

Well you don't need kevlar specifically, especially if you have steampunk in there. It could be any kind of lighweight alloy you felt like making up.