Line #38 Main/OldSchoolDogfight


1	%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1366642548086127400
2	%% Please do not replace or remove without starting a new thread.
3	%%
4	[[quoteright:350:[[Franchise/StarWars https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/TIE_X-wing_duel_826.jpg]]]]
5
6	An Old-School Dogfight is a type of close-combat battle between fighter craft where each attempts to maneuver behind the other in order to shoot them down. In essence, it's a three dimensional version of ChasingYourTail, where both parties are armed with a FixedForwardFacingWeapon, making it necessary to be behind their target in order to attack. In RealLife, this form of combat is limited to fighter planes, but fiction is less restricted — it can show up not only with {{Cool Plane}}s, but {{Space Fighter}}s, [[HotSubOnSubAction submarines]], and even tunneling vehicles like {{Drill Tank}}s. Any time a 3-D environment or TwoDSpace is combined with {{Fixed Forward Facing Weapon}}s, you can expect to run into old school dogfighting.
7
8	The reason it's called an "old school" dogfight is because it doesn't actually happen very often in real life anymore. While it was the standard form of air-to-air combat for decades, the introduction of reliable, long range [[HomingProjectile guided missiles]] means that most modern air combat now consists of one side's planes being blown out of the sky by a wave of missiles as soon as they come into visual range.[[note]]Which is why RadarIsUseless is normally also in effect in settings where the old-school dogfight is the norm. [[/note]]Old school dogfights can still involve the use of missiles, though — they'll just be [[ShortRangeLongRangeWeapon much shorter ranged]] than their real life equivalent, and have to be fired from behind in order to have a chance of hitting.[[note]]This ''was'' TruthInTelevision for certain types of missiles, but [[TechnologyMarchesOn isn't anymore]].[[/note]]
9
10	However, [[RuleOfCool dogfights are cool]]. More importantly, dogfights ''look'' cool, in a way "Shooting down something you can't even see" isn't. Hence this trope. The characters involved in an Old-School Dogfight will frequently be {{Ace Pilot}}s with ImprobablePilotingSkills, often have a {{Wingman}} and/or a GuyInBack, and will probably [[IGotYouCovered cover each other's six]] at some point. Old school dogfighting during an AirstrikeImpossible is not out of the question. Overlaps with SpaceIsAir when done by {{Space Fighter}}s.
11
12	Also see StandardStarshipScuffle, when it's the bigger spaceships duking it out.
13
14	----
15	!!Examples:
16	[[foldercontrol]]
17
18	[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
19	* ''Anime/CowboyBebop'' features old school dogfighting in several episodes, as well as the movie. The series normally featured realistic space flight, but used this trope during space combat [[RuleOfCool because it's cooler]].
20	* ''Anime/MazingerZ'' and its sequels -''Anime/GreatMazinger'' and ''Anime/UFORoboGrendizer''- featured this kind of fighting with [[HumongousMecha giant]] [[SuperRobot robots]], although Kouji also used his mini-ship to try to take some {{Robeast}}s down, placing behind them and shooting his missiles. His first real aerial battle -in episode 34- consisted entirely of him and [[{{Robeast}} Genocyder F9]] dog-fighting.
21	* Fighters in ''Anime/SpaceBattleshipYamato'' use tactics identical to UsefulNotes/WorldWarII-era carrier aircraft, including dive bombers and torpedo bombers. Very much a part of the stylistic "feel" of the show, with the very first episode (heavily edited when it first aired in the US) even including the original WWII battle where the Yamato got sunk (by air attack) to illustrate the point.
22	* ''Anime/{{Macross}}'' combines this with TransformingMecha, leading to some very creative maneuvers involving ''partial'' transformations.
23	** Valkyries normally use missiles -- ''[[MacrossMissileMassacre lots and lots]]'' of missiles -- leading the series to also be known for the "Itano Circus" (after animator Ichiro Itano), a stylized depiction of close-range dogfighting that includes the use of missiles.
24	** ''Anime/MacrossFrontier'' actually plays it straight, subverts it, and ''inverts'' it at some points. Most of the time it's played straight as it is in the other series, with two notable exceptions. First, the [[spoiler:Ghost V-9s]] behave very much like they're in space, changing direction with zigs and zags, which is where it's subverted (since everything else up to that point played it straight). Second, earlier in the series, Brera dodges a gun burst from Alto by zagging sideways ''in an atmosphere'', giving the appearance of actually ''inverting'' the trope.
25	* The battle between Berserker and Gilgamesh in ''Literature/FateZero'' has many shades of this, with Berserker taking control of a jet fighter against Gil's flying throne. And it is easily one of the most epic dogfights in recent anime, with Berserker turning the jet's weapons into Noble Phantasms, which Gilgamesh counters with his infamous Gate of Babylon. [[spoiler:Berserker ultimately ''destroys'' Gil's throne by means of using NP-ized flares.]]
26	[[/folder]]
27
28	[[folder:Comic Books]]
29	* At the end of ''ComicBook/{{Pouvoirpoint}}'', the large starship ''Entreprise-2061'' is assaulted by a [[SpaceFighter small coastguard fighter]], faster and better armed, which turns around him and hassles him like an [[SpaceIsAir annoying biplane]] around a zeppelin.
30	* ''ComicBook/EnemyAce'' is a great example since it takes place during [[UsefulNotes/{{WORLDWARONE}} WWI,]] and the "War in Heaven" series takes place during [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII WWII.]]
31	* ''Franchise/WonderWoman'':
32	** As an AcePilot in WWII ComicBook/SteveTrevor was shown in a few dogfights, though more often he acted as an infiltrator and intelligence officer despite his being introduced as a fighter pilot.
33	** ''ComicBook/TheLegendOfWonderWoman2016'': In the climax Diana and the Holliday Girls end up in a bomber in the middle of a fight between fighters (including Steve Trevor and Lawrence Stone), which goes horribly sideways for the Allies when the Duke of Deception figures out how to use his necromancy to tear their planes apart in the air.
34	** In ''ComicBook/WonderWoman1987'' Hippolyta as Wonder Woman gets in a dogfight with some German Messerschmitts in the invisible plane while carting the non flying members of the ComicBook/{{JSA}} to Europe during WWII. It's not quite a traditional dog fight since the Lantern and Hawkman are both flying around under their own power and fighting the Axis pilots with their powers/mace.
35	[[/folder]]
36
37	[[folder:Fanworks]]
38	* ''Manga/{{Evangelion 303}}'': This story featured several dog fights -in chapter 2, 5 and 15- between [[AcePilot Asuka]] and other pilots flying advanced war planes. They were training duels, though.
39	[[/folder]]
40
41	[[folder:Film — Live-Action]]
42	* ''Film/HighRoadToChina'' has an intense aerial dogfight between Patrick O'Malley and his rival, a deadly German pilot hired as a mercenary to eliminate him. Patrick managed to out-gun his opponent causing him to crash into a cliff.
43	* The ''Film/LostInSpace'' movie opened with a classic space dogfight.
44	* ''Film/MagnificentWarriors'' has an aerial chase / dogfight between the protagonist, Ming-ming (Michelle Yeoh) and a Japanese Zero plane. Ming's biplane gets badly damaged, but she managed to take out her pursuer by [[SnipingTheCockpit shooting a flare into the cockpit]].
45	* ''Franchise/StarWars'' is the TropeCodifier for {{space fighter}}s [[SpaceIsAir behaving this way]], to the point where Luke's experience flying a skyhopper (a mostly atmospheric ship, though capable of suborbital travel) helps him fly an X-Wing. Lucas even used old movies to choreograph the space battles. The Death Star assault scene in ''Film/ANewHope'' was modeled after the film ''Film/TheDamBusters'' (1955). In addition, the sequence was partially inspired by the climax of the film ''Film/SixThreeThreeSquadron'' (1964) in which RAF Mosquitos attack a German heavy water plant. Clips from both films were included in Lucas's temporary dogfight footage version of the sequence.
46	* ''Film/TronLegacy'' has one at the end. Justified in that none of the craft have missiles, and their {{Fixed Forward Facing Weapon}}s aren't very accurate over long distances. The heroes are in one large craft, with an additional turret, being attacked by several nimbler craft. In order to take one of them out, the pilot uses a real life tactic of taking the flight into vertical, where the smaller crafts' weaker engines die out before the larger craft's does, giving them plenty of opportunity to shoot down the assailant as they fall.
47	* ''Film/TheLastStarfighter'' has Ko-Dan fighters do this when battling Alex's Gunstar. The Gunstar itself has its weapons mounted on turrets and fights by simply plowing right through the enemy formation and blasting anything it can reach.
48	* Naturally, pretty much any movie about fighter pilots in World War I or World War II is probably going to have some of this. ''Film/HellsAngels'' and ''Film/TheDawnPatrol'' are two films both made in 1930 about World War I aces; ''Hell's Angels'' is still famous for the exceptional aerial dogfight sequences directed by Creator/HowardHughes himself. ''Film/{{Wings\|1927}}'', winner of the first Oscar for Best Picture, is a silent film also known for stunning aerial combat scenes. ''Film/OnlyOldMenAreGoingToBattle'' is a Russian film about Soviet fighters engaging the Germans on the Eastern Front that also has beautiful scenes of combat.
49	* ''Film/RedTails'' revolves around a squadron of African American fighter pilots during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII [[JackieRobinsonStory proving that they are just as good as anyone else in U.S. Army Air Force.]] Naturally, this film features the eponymous Red Tail squadron's P-51 Mustangs squaring off against the best that the [[ThoseWackyNazis LuftWaffe]] has to throw at them, including the Me-109 and the Me-262.
50	* The "Air" section of ''Film/{{Dunkirk}}'' has two RAF pilots dueling the Luftwaffe over the English Channel, trying to protect the Dunkirk evacuation.
51	* ''Film/HopeAndGlory'': Has a dogfight as seen by a civilian from the ground. Billy stares up in fascination but all he can see is contrails looping around in the sky.
52	--> '''Billy''': You can't see what's happening!
53	* ''Film/TopGun'': Done with a significant amount of [[JustPlaneWrong artistic license]]: every action scene in the film involves second- and third-generation jet fighters chasing each others' tails and trying to maneuver for advantage at close range like World War II-era prop planes (so much so that the hero, Maverick, gets caught in other planes' jetwash twice, [[spoiler:leading to Goose's death when they have to {{eject\|EjectEject}} from a powerless flat spin the first time]]). This was {{enforced}} by the filmmakers: at one point, at the insistence of the Navy pilots flying the actual planes, they tried filming period-accurate missile combat with the F-14s, A-4s and F-5s (the latter of which also stood in for the fictional [=MiG-28s=]), but that meant fighting at such long ranges that the other planes were practically invisible.
54	* ''Film/TopGunMaverick'': During the climax of the film, Maverick [[InvokedTrope deliberately forces]] a close-range ChasingYourTail scenario with a trio of Su-57s, since the stolen F-14A he and Rooster are flying couldn't have won a missile duel with them when it was new. He bushwhacks one with cannon before they can figure out he's not a friendly, then lures the second into a CanyonChase so the ground clutter will keep it from locking on. His luck [[spoiler:nearly]] runs out over open water against the third, [[spoiler:only for Hangman to come out of nowhere in his F/A-18 and shoot it down]].
55	* ''Film/Devotion2022'': Between Tom, Jesse, and a North Korean Air Force [=MiG-15=] that buzzes the strike group hitting the Yalu River bridges. Tom and Jesse break off to go after it, only for the [=MiG=] to hide in the clouds and get behind them, forcing Jesse to lead it on a CanyonChase so that Tom can get in front and shoot it down.
56	[[/folder]]
57
58	[[folder:Literature]]
59	* Happens a fair bit in ''Literature/TheStarloreLegacy'' - justified, since both the author and several of the main characters are [[AcePilot skilled fighter pilots]]. Only difference here is that it's almost all between space fighters (although they all behave just like atmospheric aircraft). Highlights include the giant battle at the end of ''FLIGHT'', the aerial trials during ''OATH'', and the air-combat sequences in the Ruah in ''RECLAMATION''.
60	* The ''Franchise/StarWars'' [[Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Expanded Universe]] has a lot of this, reflecting the films, though different books and media vary considerably in how straight they play it. The ''Literature/XWingSeries'' is a particular example, as it revolves around fighter pilots.
61	* The {{novelization}}s of the ''Anime/{{Robotech}}'' series address this problem by noting that the Veritech fighters were partially controlled by the pilot's thoughts. And since the pilots were accustomed to flying in the atmosphere, that translated to similar flying patterns in space. Whether this makes it [[HandWave better]] or [[VoodooShark worse]] is up for debate.
62	* From the [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Black Library novels]]:
63	** The ''Literature/GauntsGhosts'' spinoff ''Double Eagle'', hyper advanced space fighters with vectored thrust engines and laser cannons are still mixing it up WWII style.
64	** On the other hand, mocked in ''Literature/CiaphasCain: Death or Glory'' along with SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes: "Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run,'' [[labelnote:footnote]]A popular holodrama of the 930s, about a squadron of fighter pilots in the Gothic War.[[/labelnote]] starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres." An Ork space fighter later attacks Cain's EscapePod in the stereotypical style, but like most Orky silliness this is probably justified by their inborn ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve field allowing the fighter to do that.
65	* In ''Literature/TheDreamsideRoad'', Enoa and Orson get into one immediately after flying the [[SignatureTeamTransport Aesir]] away from their disastrous detour to [[spoiler:Mayhill]]. Two salvaged Sun Talon fighters pursue them for several minutes before they devise a way to outfly and outfight the enemy craft.
66	* Played with for what little is seen of fighter combat in ''Literature/TheFlightEngineer'' (the series revolves around a space carrier, but the hero is the fighter squadron's chief engineer instead of a pilot). Speeds chase each other's tails and loop around crazily and are armed with line-of-sight weapons, but the ranges are far greater than usual and, given the fact that capital ships avert SpaceFriction (they have to flip end-for-end and fire thrusters to stop), it's possible the Speeds were [[InvokedTrope specifically designed that way]].
67	* James White's ''Literature/SectorGeneral'' series includes a story about the war that led to the series proper, as the humans and aliens were fighting close-up due to the alien Shield, which caused anything that would explode to do so at the edge, where energy beams would also dissipate. The humans managing to duplicate the Shield, left both species fighting in visual range, under the shields, with machine-guns, kinetic kill rockets and railguns.
68	* In ''Literature/{{Victoria}}'', several of the air battles with [[LadyLand Azania]] are portrayed this way, despite the setting's near-future technology. Justified in part, since they are fought among mountain peaks, where long-range weapons are realistically less useful; also downplayed, since fire-and-forget missiles ''are'' used, though under these conditions cannons still claim most of the casualties.
69	* ''Literature/{{Skyward}}'': The humans often fight with the Krell this way, trading destructor lasers and dodging each other. Cobb, however, is extremely dismissive of this manner of fighting; Krell ships are faster, have stronger shields, and stronger destructors. He prefers to teach his cadets how to use the light-lances instead, which are basically energy grappling hooks.
70	-->'''Bim:''' No lip intended, but... I mean, I talked to some cadets from Firestorm Flight this morning. ''They've'' been dogfighting this entire time.\
71	'''Cobb:''' Good for them! When they're all dead, you can move into their room.
72	[[/folder]]
73
74	[[folder:Live-Action TV]]
75	* ''Series/BabylonFive'' and its spin-off ''Series/{{Crusade}}'' play this straight. Even ships much larger than fighters can engage in such behavior, such as the ''White Star''s, which are classified as gunships. Starfuries are notable in that they are shown several times to flip around while continuing to travel in the previous direction in order to shoot the target behind them. In fact, the Starfury design (a central pod with engines all around) is so good that it may serve as an inspiration for RealLife spacecraft.
76	* The two ''Franchise/BattlestarGalactica'' series took both ends of this argument. The original had Old School Dogfighting, very much modelled after ''Franchise/StarWars'' while the new version showed actual moves possible in zero/micro-gravity (end to end flips, near-90 turns in all directions, etc.)
77	* Used in pretty much every episode of ''Series/BuckRogersInTheTwentyFifthCentury''. With the same stock footage almost every time.
78	* ''Series/DoctorWho'': [[Recap/DoctorWhoS31E3VictoryOfTheDaleks "Victory of the Daleks"]] came up with an example of this trope taken to its extreme: through some {{Technobabble}} upgrades, 1940's Spitfires, with lasers, take on a Dalek ship in orbit (admittedly one that was incredibly badly damaged and couldn't really do much to fight back). This was, naturally, entirely down to the RuleOfCool.
79	* ''Series/{{Dogfights}}'', natch. Pretty much happens OnceAnEpisode, especially during the episodes focused on UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, and UsefulNotes/KoreanWar, where this type of fighting was the only sure way of downing aircraft. By the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar segments, American pilots are forced into going back to doing this, thanks in part to the flaws of early missile technology.
80	* ''Series/{{Farscape}}'' opens with John getting shot into the middle of an old school dogfight.
81	* ''Series/SovietStormWorldWarIIInTheEast'' has the episode "The Air War", showcasing German and Soviet {{Ace Pilot}}s, their planes, and their dogfights over the Eastern Front battlefield. The largest of which is arguably during the Battle of Kursk, where hundreds of Soviet fighters cover the ground forces against Luftwaffe fighters and bombers.
82	* ''Series/SpaceAboveAndBeyond'' both plays this trope straight and averts it. The humans' SA-43 "Hammerhead" fighters would fly through space like conventional aircraft but, in combat, would twist and turn in ways that are only possible in zero gravity (this would go on to influence the reimagined ''Battlestar Galactica''). Also, while they use cannons as their primary weapon rather than missiles, they have guns fitted fore and aft, and they're able to swivel.
83	* The ''Franchise/StargateVerse'' has a few dogfights, and every race except the Asgard has at least one vehicle useful in a dogfight (F-302s, Death Gliders, Puddle Jumpers, Wraith Darts etc.). The F-302 and Death Gliders are hybrid aircraft that can also fight in atmosphere, which might excuse their aerodynamic design to some degree. Unfortunately this falls flat in light of Puddle-Jumpers and Darts, neither of which are all that aerodynamic, but both of which can not only fight in atmosphere, but ''travel through Stargates''. The Goa'uld also invented a Stargate-traveling Death Glider at one point, but due to the difficulty of "threading the needle" only master pilots were able to use them for that purpose. The F-302 uses both modified Sidewinder missiles and rail guns as line-of-sight weapons. Against the death gliders they had enough missiles to get the job done, and only had to use the guns in some situations. By ''Series/StargateAtlantis'' episodes, however, against darts it's a different story since [[ZergRush there are far more darts then there are F-302s]].
84	* Although SpaceIsAnOcean in the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' franchise, there are occasional space battles that resemble dogfights more than naval battles, particularly as the budgets and special effects technology has increased. Later episodes and films show starships and starfighters alike banking, rolling, and [[ChasingYourTail chasing one another's tails]] -- and not only that, but they fight at [[SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale ranges comparable to WWII-era dogfights]]. Certain ships appear to be specifically designed for dogfighting; Klingon Birds-of-Prey and Jem'Hadar fighters, for example, only have {{Fixed Forward Facing Weapon}}s, and while Federation capital ships can fire their phaser strips in nearly any direction, the ''Defiant''-class also has fixed phaser cannons that are more powerful than its strips.
85	* The interceptors in ''Series/UFO1970'' use stand-off missiles, though they appear to be unguided. The combat in general draws very much from popular [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Battle of Britain]] images: Moonbase is the beleaguered sector airfield and SID (Space Intruder Detector) the RDF radar. Calmly-speaking young women (the WAAF's) vector in Interceptors (Spitfires) against the anonymous alien invaders (German bombers). But given that the Moon takes 27.322 days to orbit the Earth, [[FridgeLogic one wonders why]] the aliens don't just attack when Moonbase is on the opposite side of their target.
86	* ''Series/WonderWoman1975'': In "The New, Original Wonder Woman", Major Steve Trevor and Captain Drangel engage in a classic duel in the skies over [[HiddenElfVillage Paradise Island]]. After several maneuvers, they both lose a game of chicken! After they both eject, Captain Drangel shoots Major Trevor while both are floating down with their parachutes. That's the last advantage Captain Drangel has, though. Major Trevor is rescued and nursed back to health by Princess Diana. Captain Drangel falls into the water and becomes shark food.
87	[[/folder]]
88
89	[[folder:Pinball]]
90	* ''Pinball/SecretService'' shows three Soviet [=MIGs=] shooting at American fighter jets escorting Air Force One.
91	* Invoked in Creator/SternPinball's ''[[Pinball/IronManStern Iron Man]]'' with the "Bogey" mode, which centers on Iron Man engaging two US Air Force fighter jets in an Old-School Dogfight.
92	* Prominently featured in ''Pinball/StellarWars''
93	[[/folder]]
94
95	[[folder:Tabletop Games]]
96	* Played straight in ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' standard rules. Aerospace fighters function much the same in either space or atmosphere -- there are some practical differences between the environments, but the basic maneuvers and tactics are still the same. The ''advanced'' rules (found in the ''Strategic Operations'' volume in the current incarnation of the rule set), though, suddenly has fighters in space that can use their maneuvering thrusters to spin in mid-flight in ways that they never could in mid-air. (This doesn't change their ''heading'', mind, just their ''facing'' -- but it still effectively turns them into fast-moving turrets.)
97	* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'':
98	** The Imperium has access to Skystrike missiles for air-to-air combat, and Tau seeker missiles give them a distinct edge over other races, but for the most part the game plays this trope straight.
99	** This trope is the entire purpose of the spinoff game ''TabletopGame/AeronauticaImperialis''. The only guided missiles in the game are ground-attack-only weapons.
100	** Largely averted in the basic tabletop game; most fighters have Beyond Visual Range missiles (provided you believe the UnitsNotToScale hand wave). Rules for dogfighting do exist in the 2013 version of ''Apocalypse'', but they only kick in when two fighters get ''very'' close to each other, and the dogfight only lasts for one turn.
101	* This is the point of ''TabletopGame/XWingMiniatures'', to the point where only a handful of ships have the option to ''not'' move on their turn. Weapon ranges are fairly short, except on the Epic ships like the [=CR90=] Corvette, meaning that you really need to be fairly close for maximum effect.
102	* ''TabletopGame/DropzoneCommander'' relies heavily on countermeasures, mostly active such as ECM and CIWS, to keep the action on the table and justify the close-up urban combat, so even the most advanced aircraft are no longer capable of BVRAAM combat as it doesn't work well enough to warrant the capability.
103	* Back in the 1960s there was a game called ''Dogfight'', with American pilots battling Germans in World War I. Many others have been published since then, covering every period from that war through the current day, plus sets of miniatures rules. Most go into at least some detail to distinguish different plane types.
104	[[/folder]]
105
106	[[folder:Video Games]]
107	* A number of combat flight simulator games featuring missile-armed jets fiddle with this trope.
108	** In ''VideoGame/JASFJanesAdvancedStrikeFighters'', for instance, some dogfighting skill is required, but you usually engage the enemy from several kilometers away. Most kills will come as you close with other planes, but regardless of how you kill you can only get a missile lock when the enemy is ahead of you.
109	** The ''VideoGame/AceCombat'' series [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-Zags]] this trope; on the one hand, the player character's plane is typically armed with ''[[HyperspaceArsenal dozens or even hundreds]]'' of missiles that they can use to blow away mooks by the hundred, but only at [[ShortRangeLongRangeWeapon absurdly short ranges]], and [[EliteMook ace pilots]] or {{Boss Battle}}s generally ''will'' require some old school dogfighting to take down.
110	** ''Tom Clancy's VideoGame/{{HAWX}}'' uses the ''Ace Combat'' model for the most part and even forces you to guns only at one point (handwaved by a malfunction in your squadron's missile targeting systems). It also features a mechanic where you can turn off your plane's stall-prevention systems, enabling you to do such things as flipping end-for-end to blast a guy behind you.
111	** ''Videogame/DigitalCombatSimulator'' is a very realistic flight sim, but even the modern planes can get into these situations depending on the mission setup. Missiles are imperfectly modeled, meaning that it's possible to avoid them more easily than in reality, which can result in situations where both pilots have expended their armament and are now relying on cannon and maneuvering to get the kill.
112	* ''VideoGame/{{Breed}}'', while mostly a {{FPS}}, have a few levels where you pilot a starfighter to battle hostile Breed aircraft in the skies or outer space, including an intense AerialCanyonChase near the end and the climatic BattleshipRaid on the BreedMothership.
113	* ''Franchise/StarWars'' games, as in the rest of the franchise, make extensive use of old school dogfighting.
114	* ''VideoGame/WingCommander'' is heavily built on this trope since the series was inspired largely by ''UsefulNotes/WorldWarII 's'' Pacific Theater of combat with squadrons of fighters engaging in old school dog fighting while torpedo bombers make attack runs on warships. They also have missiles but the ranges are short and they don't necessarily result in a OneHitKill.
115	* ''VideoGame/MaceGriffinBountyHunter'', the player can pilot several ships and engage in space combat. Notably, you can walk into a ship, move around inside it, and fly the ship from inside the cockpit seamlessly, with no loading screens or transitions.
116	* In ''VideoGame/AceOnline'', while ridiculously high-altitude and long-range missile combat is possible, war situations tend to move towards close-range combat for numerous reasons, including:
117	** [[TankGoodness A-gears]] in Siege Mode are capable of killing at extreme distances due to the [[MoreDakka volume of firepower]] they're capable of putting out. However, their weapons have a ''minimum'' range on their weapons (which is affected by their armor), meaning that the best way to kill them is to -- you guessed it -- old school dogfight.
118	** B-gears are able to rain [[OneHitKill death]] from the very top of the battlefield. However, they're often used instead as a battering ram in nation war events, in which they attempt to destroy defenders [[MoreDakka pouring weapons fire]] into a [[CoolGate zone gate]] with an ActionBomb that takes out nearby gears.
119	** I-gears have amazing maximum lock-on range with their missiles, but it's also harder to lock on to the desired target from extreme range if said target is [[CannonFodder surrounded by clouds]] of [[WeHaveReserves sacrificial decoy craft]].
120	* ''VideoGame/CodenameEagle'' has a stage where you take down enemy jets in a massive dogfight above London.
121	* In ''VideoGame/{{Critical Mass\|1995}}'', your squad does indeed have guided missiles, but the ships often turn faster than the missiles do. Add this to the fact that a lot of ships are equipped with the powerful but unguided Plectron rocket, and you get old school dogfighting.
122	* ''VideoGame/{{X}}-Universe'': Used like pretty much everything else set in space. ''X3: Reunion'' is a particularly egregious offender, as it advertised a Newtonian physics model but then still went with the constant thrust = constant speed model. Most medium to heavy missiles are not only easily shot down by guns, but are actually ''slower'' than their intended targets. Arguably a response to ArtificialStupidity, as the missiles are prone to {{Roboteching}} and there's no such thing as countermeasures.
123	* ''Franchise/StarFox'' is built on this trope, which shouldn't be surprising since the ships used are basically just the X-wings from ''Franchise/StarWars''. Levels take place in open space, near the ground, or even near the surface of a sun, but the handling is always exactly the same.
124	* ''VideoGame/HaloReach'' has a ''VideoGame/WingCommander''-style space dogfight in a Sabre fighter during the mission "Long Night of Solace", armed with machine guns and [[MacrossMissileMassacre barrages of homing missiles]]. Several levels in the ''Franchise/{{Halo}}'' franchise also have Banshee dogfighting, where they handle the same regardless of whether they're on Earth, a Halo ring, a gas giant, or in space.
125	* In ''VideoGame/TachyonTheFringe'', all engagements are done at extremely close ranges, and standard tactics involve chasing the enemy until your have him in your crosshairs for a (slow) laser barrage. While there are missile weapons, they are limited, can be fooled with cheap countermeasures, and only those provided by [[MegaCorp GalSpan]] are guided. Fighters can "glide", though, disengaging engines and rotating the craft to face and fire in any direction. It can also be used creatively with the afterburner to go past the normal max speed (but only in a given direction).
126	* The ''VideoGame/{{Aquanox}}'' games do this ''[[InSpace underwater]]''. While you nominally pilot a submarine, it looks and behaves like a SpaceFighter with SpaceIsAir, er, WaterIsAir, in full effect.
127	* ''Franchise/MassEffect'' is [[ZigZaggingTrope inconsistent]] about using this and averting it. The codex discussion on space combat tactics says that it's normally averted, with standard fighter tactics being to attack using guided missiles at ranges of tens of kilometers or more. Background events in the game itself show battles more typical of this trope, however -- but it can be argued that those events are the exception to the rule, being "knife fight" (the term used by the in-game codex) engagements at horrifically short ranges where most of the normal rules of fleet combat don't apply.
128	** Justified in the Climactic Space battle at the end of ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'', because the situation really is ''that'' desperate.
129	* ''VideoGame/{{FreeSpace}}''
130	** Zigzagged in ''VideoGame/TheBabylonProject'', a freeware ''Series/BabylonFive'' game built with the ''VideoGame/FreeSpace 2'' engine. ''TBP'' uses the stereotypical SpaceIsAir dogfighting physics for the most part (fixed weapons, ChasingYourTail, etc.). However, in keeping with their TV show counterparts' behavior, Starfuries also have a "glide" mode that lets them rotate while continuing on their original vector.
131	* ''[[{{VideoGame/XCOM}} X-COM]]'' series:
132	** In ''[[VideoGame/XCOMUFODefense UFO Defense]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/XCOMEnemyUnknown Enemy Unknown]]'', your Interceptors (cutting-edge fighter craft) are implicitly dodging lasers and plugging enemy [=UFOs=] with missiles before they get shot down themselves. In practice however, the map screen in ''UFO Defense'' is so large that you can park a fighter in one spot, or even squat on a landed UFO until it blasts off again, and wait to engage them.
133	** ''X-COM: Interceptor'' has this in full effect. When engaging alien fighters in the Battlescape, you pilot one of the fighters, while your wingmen are AI-controlled. Both you and the aliens engage in this trope with energy weapons being the main armament, although all fighters can also mount missiles. All three human-made fighters look like they might be capable of atmospheric flight as well, at least by the fact that they have wings. The first one is called the X-1A "Lightning" II, even though it looks absolutely nothing like the original "Lightning" from the first game (but looks weirdly similar to the X-301 from ''Series/StargateSG1''). The S-2 "Firestar" looks like it has curved blades for wings with orange flames painted on the front. The M-3 "Super Avenger" looks like a more rigid version of the X-1A, even though all three fighters were developed by different companies (Transtellar, Super Dynamics, Marsec).
134	** ''VideoGame/XCOMEnemyUnknown'' depicts UFO interception this way, with your launched fighters closing with the UFO from behind and trading fire with it. Given that you're essentially watching a simplified version of events on an in-game monitor rather than seeing the actual action, though, it's not entirely clear whether the trope is "really" in effect. If so, it is a justified example though, as the UFO is going about its own mission, and the interceptor is trying to shoot it down as it attempts to outrun the human craft, firing backwards down its axis of movement to discourage it.
135	* Justified in ''VideoGame/SidMeiersAcePatrol'', which takes place during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. The unique part comes from the fact that the game is turn-based. During missions, you have 1-4 fighters under your control, and you give them orders in the form of various arrows on a hex-grid. Pilots level up with kills and can learn new maneuvers (e.g. loops, slides). Some fighters also have rear-mounted turrets.
136	** The sequel ''Sid Meier's Ace Patrol: Pacific Skies'' moves the action to the Pacific theater of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII. Naturally, fighters are more advanced.
137	* Both averted and played straight in ''VideoGame/StarControl''. Trying to get behind ships is generally a poor strategy as they can turn around and fire back (their angular and translational velocity are separate), and the weapons of the ship being chased will have greater relative range. However it's played straight in that the majority of ships only have a FixedForwardFacingWeapon, thus necessitating maneuvers like turning around, and producing some standard dogfight tactics.
138	* ''VideoGame/{{Starlancer}}'' plays with it a bit; you do have plenty of guided missiles available to you, but they're finite in number with no way to restock mid-mission (except for one scripted event), and most of the early-game examples will ''not'' reliably OneHitKill an enemy fighter; chances are you're going to have to get in there with guns to finish them off. (This gets better as you advance through the campaign and start getting access to better hardware, but never really goes away entirely.) And [[MST3KMantra let's just not think too hard about]] why you have to LeadTheTarget with weapons that have "laser" in the description...
139	* ''VideoGame/{{Freelancer}}'' (a supposed sequel of ''Starlancer'', although there are no similarities beyond a mention of the war in the intro) mostly plays this straight, even with the fact that all weapons are turreted and can fire in a limited arc that doesn't match the direction of the fighter. Heavier ships like transports as well as some larger fighters can mount full turrets that fire both forward and back, but that makes maneuvering trickier.
140	* The [=iOS=] ''VideoGame/GalaxyOnFire'' games are also a good example. Some higher-end ship designs also allow a turret to be mounted that can fire in any visible direction (i.e. can't fire through the fighter) and some turrets can be set to automatically target and fire.
141	* ''Franchise/StarTrek'':
142	** ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' plays this trope back and forth. While there's a lot of customization options for ships, the tactically-oriented ships play this trope straight as they tend towards more powerful [[FixedForwardFacingWeapon cannons]] whereas the less agile tanking-oriented ships tend to use arrays that lend themselves more to broadside attacks and ends up being more SpaceIsAnOcean. There's quite a bit of customization possible with ships to match play style so it's not a hard and fast distinction. The post-''Delta Rising'' period encourages this further with the addition of the "flanking" mechanic, which grants damage bonuses for attacking from the rear to "raider" ships (mainly Klingon birds-of-prey) and captains who take the Intelligence specialization.
143	** ''VideoGame/StarTrekArmada'' plays this straight with most ships but there's a notable aversion. The ''Steamrunner'' class was designed for long-distance, wide-area bombardment rather than dogfighting.
144	** Both ''VideoGame/StarTrekStarfleetAcademy'' and ''VideoGame/StarTrek25thAnniversary'' play this straight for starship combat as the player must maneuver their ship exactly like a fighter and aim the phasers and photon torpedoes the same way since all ships have their weapons [[Main/FixedForwardFacingWeapon fixed forward like a fighter.]]
145	* In the ''VideoGame/RedBaron'' series, the background setting is actually the oldest of the old schools in question -- UsefulNotes/WorldWarI -- when aerial combat was in its infancy and the only weapons one aircraft could use against another effectively was the machine gun. Hence, close-range dogfights between aircraft are extremely common.
146	* ''Wing War'' has the "Dogfight" mode, which leads to this trope. Both players change phases periodically.
147	* Most ship vs. ship combat in ''VideoGame/NoMansSky'' are these, both in space and in atmosphere.
148	* ''VideoGame/AirfixDogfighter'' slightly subverts this; you still have to have your target more or less in the center of your view in order to shoot at them, but the game will automatically aim the crosshair at the target as soon as they're within range.
149	* Happens frequently in ''Franchise/RatchetAndClank'' games, such as ''[[VideoGame/RatchetAndClankGoingCommando Going Commando]]'', ''[[VideoGame/RatchetAndClankFutureToolsOfDestruction Tools of Destruction]]'', and ''[[VideoGame/RatchetAndClankFutureACrackInTime A Crack in Time]]'', which all feature space combat.
150	* ''[[Videogame/MechWarrior MechWarrior Living Legends]]'', set in the ''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' universe in ~3068, features fusion reactor-powered pulsed laser-toting {{Space Plane}}s that have roughly the same level of radar sophistication of a early-mid 1960s jet fighter and speeds analogous to an late 1930s monoplane.[[note]]This is for gameplay reasons, as going faster basically breaks the game's netcode. Fighters in the source material are ''easily'' capable of mach 1 and reaching orbit on their own power.[[/note]] Most fighting takes place at sub-300 meters, with players trying to get on each other's tail to open up on their engines or fuselage. "Long" range missiles exist (1000-1300 meters), but they can only lock on when flying and aiming towards the target, and they're highly unreliable at hitting anything not flying directly to or away from the user. Aircraft are functionally identical in all environments, be in air, space, or [[IfItSwimsItFlies funnily enough, water]], the only variable being how easy or hard it is to [[OverHeating overheat]], based on the ambient temperature.
151	* ''VideoGame/SabreAceConflictOverKorea'' features this, as it takes place during the UsefulNotes/KoreanWar, after the introduction of jet fighters but before air-to-air missiles. Every flyable plane, and most of the ones that aren't, uses fixed forward-facing machine guns and/or cannons as its primary air-to-air weapon.
152	[[/folder]]
153
154	[[folder:Webcomics]]
155	* ''Webcomic/CrimsonDark'' has space fighters and bombers which act like planes.
156	* ''Webcomic/{{Angels 2200}}'' is about the pilots of carrier-based space fighters which look and fly like planes.
157	* A dogfight between Resistance fighters guarding the evacuation of the base and a UEC fighter squadron attacking it (including Alex and Rick) takes up the majority of chapter three of ''Webcomic/{{Terra}}''. The two sides are armed with both missiles and guns but engage air-to-air with guns only.
158	* ''{{Webcomic/tinyraygun}}'' opens with Nepta's ship being pursued by ships that seem only capable of firing at near point-blank range.
159	[[/folder]]
160
161	[[folder:Real Life]]
162	* Old school dogfighting was one of the primary forms of air-to-air combat[[note]]The other was using HitAndRunTactics to ambush an enemy plane, riddle it with bullets as you flew past it at high speed, then be out of range before your target, if still alive and able to fight, could respond[[/note]] up until the development of all-aspect (capable of hitting a target at any angle, not just one that's in front of you) missiles. Despite advances in technology, however, old school dogfighting never ''entirely'' disappeared. There was a period in the early 1960s where dogfighting was briefly considered obsolete, and planes (notably the American F-4 Phantom) were designed with missiles as their ''only'' weapon. The Vietnam war demonstrated the problems with this approach, and pretty much every plane designed for air-to-air combat since then has planned for dogfighting to some extent.
163	* In every major air war since Vietnam, there's been the expectation that beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles, which can engage targets while they're still too far away for the Mk. 1 eyeball to make out, will finally render dogfighting obsolete by allowing pilots to take out their opponents before they ever come into visual range. This has ''never'' panned out, since it turns out that the ability to engage the enemy at beyond visual range is useless if you can't be sure that you're engaging ''the enemy''; with modern Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF) equipment,[[note]]which uses a radio transmitter to "ping" a transponder on friendly planes, with planes that respond to this ping by sending the right coded reply being deemed friendly; this is the direct ancestor of the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_surveillance_radar secondary surveillance radar]] systems used in modern air traffic control[[/note]] it's possible to be sure (to a fairly-high degree of certainty) that a particular plane is ''friendly'', but there's no way to differentiate between a hostile aircraft and a friendly one with a nonfunctional IFF transponder (for instance, due to battle damage...) until you get within visual range and can check out the lines and markings of the suspicious plane. Since RealLife averts FriendlyFireproof, and modern combat aircraft and their pilots are too valuable (and modern missiles too likely to destroy their targets) to make TrialByFriendlyFire with air-to-air missiles a good idea outside of very specific circumstances,[[note]]a possible example could be defending very-high-value targets such as major nuclear facilities, where the cost of failing to shoot down an enemy aircraft would be so potentially-catastrophic as to justify the risk of possibly shooting down a friendly aircraft with nonfunctional IFF[[/note]] modern air-to-air combat has remained within visual range to the present day, allowing for at least the possibility of an Old-School Dogfight occurring (assuming, of course, that the enemy planes can avoid the MacrossMissileMassacre on the way in and successfully close to gun range).
164	* As an analogy, dogfighting for pilots is like hand-to-hand combat for infantry: an ArchaicWeaponForAnAdvancedAge. It's no longer considered the primary form of combat, and you don't really expect to use it on anything like a regular basis, but you still have to train for it, because if you ''don't'', your enemies will use that against you.
165	* {{Averted}} (for a couple of days, anyway) by the Boulton Paul Defiant during the Battle of Britain. A German fighter would get on its tail and be blown out of the air by the four guns in the Defiant's rear turret. Then the Germans discovered the Defiant had no forward-firing armament, and was both slower and less maneuverable than conventional fighters and thus could do little to evade them.
166	* Even when this was the "primary" form of air-to-air combat, the most successful aces were often those who did what they could to avoid becoming embroiled in dogfights. One method preferred by many aces (one being the infamous Red Baron himself) was to dive on the enemy from above, attack, and then use the speed built-up in the dive to get away before setting up to do it again. To become embroiled in a turn-fight meant giving up this speed and all of the advantages that came with it. Another example comes from the Pacific Theater of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, where American pilots came up with the "Thach Weave". This involved friendly planes positioning themselves into weaving formations where any enemy attempting to move into a dogfight with one pilot was effectively putting himself in the flight-path (and gunsights) of at least one of his wingmen.
167	* News reports from the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine describe Ukrainian Air Force pilots engaging in dogfights because Russian jets have superior radar and weapons and they need to get close to even the odds.
168	[[/folder]]

Context Main / OldSchoolDogfight