This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
sessile: I just wanted to clarify this in case my undiplomatic reason for taking this out wasn't enough: saying that hip-hop draws from the "European military snare beat" is along the same lines as saying that rapping draws from the formalized insult matches of drunken Scots
, which is to say, yeah, but no. It's a specious argument, because while the "European military snare beat" may have had an influence on James Brown's drummer, Clyde Stubblefield, that would be because that beat would have had an impact on music in general; a more credible argument would be that Stubblefield drew upon jazz and R&B drumming as influences, as those would have been some of the major sounds of that time period and you can actually hear those direct influences in his drumming. You can't argue that the "European military snare beat" had a direct impact on Stubblefield's drumming. Diffuse, maybe, but not direct.
Slammerworm: The beat Stubblefield used is indeed the military snare beat. It is also fair to say that jazz and R&B also derive from it (to varying degrees), since the European 4/4 rhythm also powers those forms. 'African' rhythms do not include 4/4. I'm sorry if you find the idea that hip-hop is not wholly a 'black' musical form upsetting and since you seem bent on censoring completely (as opposed to clarifying) the line, I won't repost.
sessile: If it's so important to talk about the historical influences on a musical genre that dates back centuries, then why aren't such influences mentioned in any of the other genres listed on this page? Not once was it ever mentioned that hip-hop is a solely African-American art form; hip-hop's contributors come from all walks of life and all ethnicities, but its originators were predominantly from NYC, predominantly of a lower socio-economic status, and predominantly black and Hispanic. They utilized sounds they could achieve from vinyl and from the Roland TR-808 drum machine. The roots of hip-hop's "African" rhythms (since when is an entire continent a monolithic entity sharing one music form that never included one of the most basic rhythm patterns known to man?) are about as relevant as its roots in European military music - which is to say that they are relevant, just not immediately so, especially in terms of its birth.
Sci Vo: I wasn't entirely sure what people would want to do with this, so I figured that I'd just put up a few of my favorite albums. Nothing's set in stone, though.
Khym Chanur: Oh, God, what a horrible pun.
Hee!
Sci Vo: Heh...when I saw that the videogames used that term, I just couldn't resist.
Tanto: I'd like to put a few videogame soundtracks on here, but I'm pretty sure people would argue with me no matter what I chose... (See Penultimate Boss Theme Discussion.) Chrono Trigger (most-remixed game at Overclocked ReMix
), Donkey Kong Country, and The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina of Time seem like good choices to me, but...
I really need to write the Game Music entry. I've been putting it on hold ever since Video Game Culture got underway.
HeartBurn Kid: Hey, if I can get away with putting the WWE stuff on there, I don't see why some video game music wouldn't fit.
Sci Vo: "Notable" at the top of the page actually links to There Is No Such Thing As Notability. My idea of a joke, sorry.
Sci Vo: Ooo-kaaay...why did Smapti delete these?
- BtVS Cast, Once More, With Feeling: The soundtrack of the musical episode. It's a great way to get a Buffy fix when you're driving or at work.
- Joni Mitchell had a string of nigh-flawless records lasting over a decade.
- Anything by Queen (the greatest rock band ever).
Smapti: Didn't really mean to delete them. I was trying to put the article in more of a loose chronological order and I guess I missed them.
Sci Vo: Ah, I was wondering what was up with that order. I think that it would be more practical to sort by what we can see.
Shinra: @ Tanto, I took the initiative on Game Music, so there's a starting point for more stuff on there.
Squeal: So, this page is for artists - where do I put songs and compositions? Those should actually be a lot more interesting from this wiki's viewpoint. Also - musicians with large influence on pop-culture are rarely influential in the field of music (and vice versa). Is this page for the former or the latter?
Ununnilium: Artists, songs, albums, whatever. Also, both.
Doug S. Machina: "Music of Note". Terrible pun. I like it. Also, Blur: "Like Oasis, but without the sucking." That made me laugh.
Insanity Prelude: Uhh... yeah, the music they made for the show is really good, but isn't Nittle Grasper a fictional band?
aswilson: Removed as natter, along with my response: [entry about Metallica]
- Only much-heralded by those who don't listen to metal. Also, they were not the first thrash band. That title is hard to properly bestow, but if one were to choose, it would probably be the band Overkill.
- Does it really matter who's doing the heralding? Clearly anyone excited about whatever Metallica's doing "listens to metal" in some fashion or another, and making a judgement any other way is going to descend into Fan Dumb really damn quickly. And, "Kill 'Em All" is generally considered to be the first thrash album. Whether Metallica was the first thrash band is a different, unanswerable, and largely irrelevant question.
- Only much-heralded by those who don't listen to metal. Also, they were not the first thrash band. That title is hard to properly bestow, but if one were to choose, it would probably be the band Overkill.
Sinister Teddybear: would anybody mind if I used "Music of Note" as the title of my new show for our college radio station?
Eddie Van Helsing: I don't see any mention of the Blue Oyster Cult, which helped define American heavy metal at the same time Black Sabbath helped define British Heavy Metal. Also, Iron Maiden started out in the 1970s, and released their first LP in 1980 after several years playing London venues.
Houdini - Is there any particular reason for lumping reggae and ska together, other than having tiny, single/double entry categories?
Er...I am a theist, myself, but would it not be appropriate to drop the whole business about Beethoven and Divine Inspiration from this page?
xexyzl: What is Kamelot doing here? There are plenty of other prog/power bands that came before them and defined the sound. Symphony X comes to mind, as well as later Blind Guardian albums.
Well, first, Blind Guardian isn't progressive. Second, Symphony X is far more on the progressive side of prog-power while Kamelot is sits right in the middle. Third, Kamelot is noteworthy because of their amazing improvement in only two years between the mediocre Siege Perilous and the debatably great The Fourth Legacy as well as bringing in elements of symphonic metal which few prog-power bands did before. Its like saying that Dream Theater isn't notable because Queensryche did it first.
Where would Danny Elfman of Oingo Boingo fit on this page?
Shini guys, guys how did you guys miss Simon & Garfunkel? Well, I put 'em on, if just for Sounds of Silence and Scarborough Fair
