This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Lightblade: Journeys to Hell and the Underworld appear in other mediums as well. In fact, it's one of The Oldest Ones in the Book, dating all the way back to Greek myth. I'm sure there are plenty of more recent examples others can contribute. But the question is, do we modify the existing game-specific entry to include them, or create a new one?
Kizor: If this (Hell as a defeatable enemy) doesn't merit its own entry, I'm all for modifying.
Gus: I'd say make the more general trope with this title (To Hell And Back) and rename this one to something that pops for gaming -- Hell Game, maybe.
Ununnilium: Maybe something like Bonus Level of Hell, to play off Dante.
Kizor: That is, for someone else modifying. I'm plenty busy for the foreseeable future.
Robert: Moved videogame trope to Bonus Level of Hell
Kizor: Thanks, Rob. Now, I suppose it would be hugely counterproductive to add this quote?
- Hey, hey, what a fix! Bathin' in the River Styx! -King's Quest V
Lale: I removed the line about Christ because, while I've read about that theory, I'm a Protestant, and we don't believe it, but I don't know what group does. Anyone who puts the line back should only do it with the proper name, whatever that is.
Looney Toons: I wrote that example. I was raised Presbyterian, and it's certainly something that was included in my very Protestant religious schooling. I'll also point out the scene in Dante's Inferno where he sees the ruined Gates of Hell and is told that Christ demolished them during his time there. Rather than censoring the entry like a small-minded religious bigot, did it ever occur to you to put the disclaimer "In some Christian traditions" or the like at the beginning of the example, to allow for the possibility that other people might actually believe something different from you? I've restored the example, added supporting detail, and put in the weasel words necessary to keep anonymous vandals like you from removing the text just because they think their beliefs trump anyone else's.
Morgan Wick: Ooh. SOM Ebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning. It seems like most of the items on the list of things typically encountered come from Dante's Inferno. Only the last two don't really apply, both of which come from Greek mythology (the first, fourth, and maybe second appear in both). The last one really doesn't come from the Inferno, which takes a smattering of lines to make the trip to the surface, when the trip to the center of the Earth took an entire poem (or rather, third of a poem).
Lale: The old phrasing was too inclusive, but "In some Christian traditions" didn't sound sufficient to me, and Dante's Inferno is not authorial by a long shot- plus, it never occurred to me to cite an example I've never read.
Robert: It comes from the Apostle's Creed
, a statement of fundamental doctrine adopted by many churches including the Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, and some Baptists. Not all these churches put much emphasis on the 'harrowing of hell', as the concept is known, but it is an established part of mainstream Christianity.
Most of the other examples do come from Dante, though he may have got some of them elements from older sources. Greek myths also have ironic punishments in Hades, for example.
Lale: Robert, it's not a part of the Methodist Apostle's Creed.
Looney Toons: <SARCASM>Well then, it can't possibly be part of Christianity, then.</SARCASM> ... <Massive diatribe written and then deleted> No, I won't say that. But I have little patience for those who think their parochial views are universal.
Morgan Wick: Erm... the list I was referring to wasn't the same list (of examples) the Harrowing of Hell appeared on.
Potato Engineer: There was a book I read a while ago that had a hero do a typical Greek-like visit to Hell, complete with "the person you want will follow you out; don't look behind you, or you'll lose her." In a twist, the hero brought a friend who had a very, very shiny breastplate: the hero insisted that the friend walked in front, and the hero could see the woman he was rescuing in the reflection. The million-dollar question: what was that book?
