This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
(Before rename)
Looney Toons: Removed the following when reconstructing the page because it wasn't really relevant:
- Concerning crop circles, it should be noted that some of the patterns are so incredibly complex that it would take dozens of people and several days, along with professional measuring equipment and possibly some flying support to produce some of these shapes. The techniques described by the original perpetrators is only good for the most rudimentary shapes. This troper does not believe that crop circles are produced by aliens or supernatural entities, but finds the idea of a professional crop circle conspiracy almost as far-fetched.
Masami Phoenix: I can't remember it's name, but wasn't there a movie about some students purposely starting a Tuttle that got out of hand?
fleb: Never saw it, but the trailer for Cry Wolf sounds like that.
Zeke: Removed this:
- Some particularly cynical individuals might suggest that religion in general is a Tuttle.
(ETA) Okay, the line was put back without comment, and I've removed it again. If you disagree with me, by all means let's discuss it here; don't just revert me.
Looney Toons: I most certainly disagree with you. I've never stinted on the "this troper" usage with embedded links to make it clear that just who is doing the talking; in this case I am most assuredly not speaking solely of myself. If you're willing to make the claim that it is impossible that a religion can have evolved out of someone making something up and other people keeping the made-up story alive, I need only point you at Scientology. One datapoint is enough to suggest two or more datapoints are at least likely.
Duckluck: Most cults are started by a charismatic leader lying out his ass, and a number of mainstream religions (Mormonism, for instance) are just cults that outgrew the crazy, so it seems both reasonable and relevant to say that some religions are based on lies some guy came up with. Let's leave it.
Zeke: Fair enough, but there's a big difference between "some religions" and "religion in general". I certainly don't claim that no religion could be made up. As you say, some manifestly are. What's offensive is the idea that all religions can be traced back to outright lies. Even taking a strictly anthropological view, that's silly; some myths are devised to empower a person or group, but others are good-faith attempts to understand the world. The view described (which, yes, plenty of people hold) isn't just cynical, it's condescending and ad-hominem. However, I apologize for sniping at you (Looney Toons), and I'll let the line be; Real Life examples of any trope will always tick off somebody.
(Renamed from Tuttle to Snowball Lie)
Looney Toons: Where was the discussion held to justify this name change? Because I missed it entirely. Are you aware that page renaming without a wiki consensus is frowned upon? The page rename tool was removed for this very reason. So I ask, where was the debate/discussion that determined that this was a better name?
Looney Toons (3 days later): So much for discussion.
rb: I've moved some to The Ernest.
Looney Toons: Moved the following flamewar here. Keep it here, guys.
- To be fair, some of the crop circles are so intricate and complex, and without visible human tampering, such as footprints, that making them is quite an intigruing conspiracy on its own. Making many of them requires far more than one night, meaning that a large number of people have to be in on the joke, owner of the field included. Far more plausible than aliens, but still fascinating in complexity, considering how difficult it usually is to have large numbers of people keep a secret.
- To make it worse, the very first crop circles were recorded in the year 1678
, making them not only a hoax, but an Ancient Conspiracy of hoaxers that have been faking crop circles for almost three and a half centuries. But hey, a prank that has continued for seventeen generations in complete secrecy is vastly more believable than anything else, right?
- Yeah, in complete secrecy, except for the admitted hoaxes mentioned above. And why assume an Ancient Conspiracy when unconnected groups of hoaxers, possibly inspired by each other, explains it better?
- To make it worse, the very first crop circles were recorded in the year 1678
- To be fair, some of the crop circles are so intricate and complex, and without visible human tampering, such as footprints, that making them is quite an intigruing conspiracy on its own. Making many of them requires far more than one night, meaning that a large number of people have to be in on the joke, owner of the field included. Far more plausible than aliens, but still fascinating in complexity, considering how difficult it usually is to have large numbers of people keep a secret.
Daibhid C: There's a couple of examples that occur both here and at "Fawlty Towers" Plot (the Coupling one, and the Fraiser one). Since it's been a while since I've seen either episode I'm not sure, but I think they both fit better there.
