This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Ununnilium: I don't think a bug that isn't obvious is a subversion of this.
Morgan Wick: Why not? (We really need to stop meeting like this.)
Ununnilium: Heh heh, indeed.
Because a bug shouldn't be obvious; that's its default state. An obvious bug in a TV show is usually only obvious because the audience needs to see it, or because it's being hidden in plain sight (as with the Galactica example).
Morgan Wick: I'm afraid I still don't understand. The trope is that bugs on television are obvious more often than they should be and more often than not ("always" large and obnoxious). Is the latter part not true? Are there more non-obvious bugs on television than obvious ones? In other words, are most of the cases of there being bugs on television cases where the audience needs to see it or it's being hidden in plain sight?
Because if not, what would be a subversion, then? Is there such a thing as a subversion? And does this even count as a trope in that instance?
Dark Sasami: I've argued this before. A subversion is when you actively play on a trope and turn it around, not when you simply don't utilize it. I've argued in the past for uses such as "averted trope" or "this (stupid) trope was deftly dodged in x by doing y", whereas shows like Buffy actually do take tropes, play on your expectations that they'll be followed, then turn them inside out.
A bug that isn't blindingly obvious and stupid isn't a subversion—it's a bug.
A subversion would be to have a big blinky bug planted in an obvious way, have the protagonist find it and toss it into a garbage truck, and then have the villain track the car anyway by means of a second bug that was nigh undetectable—the blinky bug was camouflage.
Morgan Wick: Well, arguably the protagonist finding it is subversion enough, depending on whether you consider people inexplicably not noticing it part of the trope.
Dark Sasami: Come to think of it, correct on both counts.
Ununnilium: Don't forget to use Averted Trope, people! ``v
Dark Sasami: Heh, thanks! I'd completely forgotten that I'd gotten my way on that one. Guess I'm just not used to it.
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Bring The Noise: Cut the following natter:
- Although considering the incredibly complex Xanatos Roulette Palpatine is engaged in, it could be that Jango was well aware that Obi-Wan could bug him.
- And even then, the bug was not intended to be a long-term solution. Obi-Wan just needed to tag Jango for one space trip. Big fat deal had he noticed it after landing.
- Big deal indeed, as he could, oh, inform his boss that a Jedi had followed him and set up, say, an ambush? Just as a thought.
Shrikesnest: Excessive Star Wars justifying edits needs its own goddamn trope. You can't say anything about the implausibilities in that series without someone treating convoluted fanwank as God's own self-obvious truth.
