This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From YKTTW Working Title: fetish fuel future
Kizor: The fanfic section currently holds one entry with a transparent though ordinary excuse to feature porn (but several stories are apparently tagged with "humiliation," "violent," "nonconsensual" or rape), one with mass objectification and cannibalism, one with prolonged worldwide rape, and one with massive pedophilic incestual rape.
TV tropes is very comprehensive, that's true. Am I the only one uncomfortable with extending that to cheerleading for rapists? More to the point, do I care? Zapped!
Black Humor: They're examples, of this trope. There Is No Such Thing As Notability and/or Tropes Are Not Good, take your pick.
Kizor: I am not saying that they are not significant. I'm saying that we are not going to list rape porn, even if it didn't have the hilarious overtones of pedophilia, slavery, and murder, and I am not amenable to discussing a change of attitude. This is just me though - you can get opinions from others, but I suspect that they'll be similar.
Black Humor: Forum thread here.
Madrugada: Statements that something exists is not "cheerleading for it." If you're uncomfortable with the examples in the Fan Fiction section, Kizor, what about the ones in the other sections, specifically Gor in the Literature section? Do you want that edited out, as well? Or is it somehow different because it was published by a mainstream publisher? If "we are not going to list rape porn", then we need to nuke entire sections of the wiki. And frankly, even if I agreed with your distaste for having it listed, I would oppose you on your stand that you, or any other single troper, get to unilaterally decide what gets listed.
Nornagest: Keep. Not our call to make.
I am cutting this, though (was under the Film folder):
- * All the female clothing (with a few exceptions) and some of the male clothing in the future presented in The Fifth Element seems designed to show off the wearer's assets in artistic ways.
Sexy clothing in general is not a fetish. Specific types of sexy clothing can be, but from what I remember The Fifth Element was pretty indiscriminate.
Kizor: The cheerleading is the works, not the examples. And thanks to Black Humor for going out of your way to obtain a peaceful resolution, though the outcome was foregone with that presentation of my point. Can't tell if it was fair or not. And Gor is indeed different. First, getting published is a form of quality control, showing that the work has at least some ability to show its head in public. Second, it's mild compared to the excesses of the fanfic section. Oh look, a new example details how all women from toddlers up are forced into Rape Is Love and how they gradually lose their status as sentient beings.
I have no intention of establishing a moral standard on this wiki or making a sweep of tropes on sexuality. Having rules on TV Tropes be fast and loose is a good principle, but like with any principle or rule or other such thing we need to be able to say "oh, screw it!" when its results are blatantly wrong. That includes cataloguing some of the sickest, vilest porn on the entire Internet.
Twin Bird: TV Tropes, sadly, is not an ethical being.
Seriously, have you noticed you're alone? We're cataloguing sick, vile porn because this trope can be about sick, vile porn - see also A Love to Dismember. Tropes Are Not Good, they can be horrifying, and yet they still make strong examples. As long as it's not illegal (to publish and read, not to act out in real life), I say it ought to be here. And we should probably stop the "NO LINK FOR YOU" attitude, as well.
Kizor: Not alone, per the thread, but not going to succeed. That's why I said that the outcome was foregone. I'm not behind that attitude, by the way.
- I have no intention of establishing a moral standard on this wiki or making a sweep of tropes on sexuality.
But that's exactly what you are trying to do — establish a moral standard: This is morally reprehensible and therefore we should not acknowledge it.
And by the way, Gor is actually proof positive that mainstream publishing has nothing to do with quality-control.
Kizor: No, I have no intention of establishing a moral standard on this wiki by being against a single instance of cataloguing pedophilic porn. And Gor is quality indeed when compared to permanent worldwide toddler rape. Now leave me alone, you won already and some young fool on Wikipedia is kicking up a mess that's going to take days to fix. I had other things to do.
Ronfar: The wiki does have an unofficial policy against directly linking to porn...
