This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
I’d prefer to broaden the definition to include any real–world religion mirrored by a fantasy one. If Crystal Dragon Jesus could serve as an umbrella term to cover this then you would not have to divide between Crystal Dragon Islam, Crystal Dragon Buddhism, etc.
The Ultima setting, for example, repeatedly uses an Ankh as a holy symbol. Does that make the Ultima church any less Crystal Dragon Jesus than one using a Crucifix?
Seth: I always use this as a stand in for any real world religion in fiction, if it isn't already explicit in the trope i will expand it.
Seth: That's clunky, i didn't want to rewite the lead because it was good but this might need a more or less complete rewrite for that expansion.
Ununnilium: I disagree. This isn't just the Fantasy Counterpart Culture version of Christianity, it's specifically a Christianity-esque religion with a different central deity.
Morgan Wick: So What You Are Saying is that, if you can swap out any Christian image for an image from some other religion (and/or vice versa), it's What Do You Mean, It's Not Symbolic?, not this trope. Certainly the Ultima setting, from the sound of it, would be.
Thus, Ishbal and Tamriel, if we go with your definition, should be kicked out to some other entry. And the Lodoss War example sounds like What Do You Mean, It's Not Symbolic?.
Ununnilium: Ishbal and Tamriel both feel like Fantasy Counterpart Culture to me. And Lodoss... hmmmmmm. That's a trickly one; it's not What Do You Mean, It's Not Symbolic?, since obviously, it is symbolic. Hmmmmmmm.
Morgan Wick: I dunno, the way the entry describes it, it sounds like slapping crosses on for no reason whatsoever.
Ununnilium: Yeah, but slapping them on things that are already religiously-affiliated. Hmmmmmmm.
Later: Shuffling stuff around, due to the above.
Ununnilium: Pulling this out, because it's something completely different (King of All Cosmos?):
- Possible Subversion: Transformers. Primus, while not always Mr. Nice God (at least in the comics, he comes across better when he appears in the cartoons), is in fact the creator of the Transformers, and their homeworld is his body. Surprisingly little goes on by way of religious ceremony, though he is connected to both the Autobot Matix of Leadership and Cybertron's Omega Lock, and granted the Autobots the Spark of Combination in Energon, as well as the Cyber Keys from Cybertron being derived from his power. And all this while he's sealed away in a deep slumber.
- Primus's opposite number Unicron is no slouch, either. He eats planets, created the Mini-Cons to give the Autobots and Decepticons something to fight over in Armada, and is directly responsible for the "hyper power" upgrades of most of Energon's Decepticons.
Scrounge: Oooh, I didn't even know what had that page. Thanks.
LO Rd: I just wish to applaud the amazing name of this article. Seriously, it gives me hope.
Jordan: A bit confused what's meant by the comment on Omnianism seeming like Islam from the outside. I think Visit is pretty clearly a fantasy version of an Evangelical Christian (or I suppose a Mormon since that's taken off in England) given that he is always handing out religious tracts, which isn't something that much associated with Muslims.
Ununnilium: Agreed. Pulling it out:
- That's because, while it may be primarily Christian, Omnianism takes in elements of Islam as well, in particular when we see the Omnian police officer in the Watch, he comes across more as a Muslim than a Christian. So basically, from the inside, Omnianism is Christianity, from the outside, it's Islam. This is probably because a lot of the nastier medieval elements are the same, so all that changes is the cultural distance of the viewpoint.
- This troper always thought Visit-The-Unbeliever was pretty Christian-like; I've never seen Muslims go door to door with leaflets asking if people have let Allah into their lives.
- Yeah, this troper never read Omnianism as being like Islam. Instead, it always seemed to him to be more of a thinly veiled version of Jehova's Witnesses, in the later incarnation.
- That's because, while it may be primarily Christian, Omnianism takes in elements of Islam as well, in particular when we see the Omnian police officer in the Watch, he comes across more as a Muslim than a Christian. So basically, from the inside, Omnianism is Christianity, from the outside, it's Islam. This is probably because a lot of the nastier medieval elements are the same, so all that changes is the cultural distance of the viewpoint.
That Other 1 Dude: Is that really an appropriate picture? It doesn't really seem like an example.
fleb: Seconded. I'm cutting it.
- http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Triforce.jpg -->[[caption-width:360:The Triforce and three goddesses in ''LegendOfZelda Twilight Princess'']]
Meta: Is it just me, or is there no explanation anywhere as to why it's called "Crystal Dragon Jesus"?
fleb: We have a lot of unexplained titles (I had to ask about Chainsaw Good), but I think this one stands on its own based on the pure Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot-ness of it. We had a thread about how the title is completely made-up, yet the perfect distillation of the trope, on the forum somewhere.
Ununnilium: It's simple, really; imagine Christianity. Now imagine something like Christianity, but instead of Jesus, it has a big shiny Eastern dragon.
Ununnilium: Severely cutting down the page quote; much too long. And, really, I don't know if we should be using it in the first place; how recursive do we want to get? Plus, I severely disagree with it; he's basically saying that, if you want to use Middle Ages tropes, you have to be exactly the Earth European Middle Ages. It gives a very "this is wrong" flavor to a trope that was pretty much neutral before.
Also:
- Their God is a plant with a big gun. His name is Knives, and fan girls write fanfics about how he should have yaoi sex with his brother Vash. No, seriously.
No. >>v
- Variation in the Sandman comics, in which Lucifer is still The Devil, and the creator of Heaven and Hell is the "true" creator of the Universe, but according to the Word Of, um, God, "the Silver City" isn't the Christian Heaven, nor is The Creator technically the Christian God.
This isn't this trope. It's... um... Crossover Cosmology, maybe?
Tanto: I concur on all counts regarding the page quote; pulling it.
Dausuul: Added a bit to the end to emphasize the distinction between Crystal Dragon Jesus and Fantasy Counterpart Culture Christianity.
Thinks Too Much: Isn't Aslan an inversion of this trope? My understanding was that Crystal Dragon Jesus is "trappings of Christianity but no actual theological similarity", while Aslan has few of the bell-book-and-candle or steeple-and-vestment trappings but is theologically very similar. However, I keep seeing Aslan listed as Crystal Dragon Jesus, so I'm confused.
