This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: Angst Dissonance/Angst Tolerance: From YKTTW
Tzintzuntzan: I meant to put this in the discussion before launch, but my stupid computer wouldn't let be post it. Basically, I think that part of why angst on TV feels stronger than it is, is that fan tolerance for obnoxious behavior depends greatly on whether it follows the Rule of Cool.
Taking EVA as an example(again), Shinji actually whines a lot less on-screen than Asuka does. Really. In every episode she appears in, Asuka is whining about how Rei is cramping her style, or how Japanese have small apartments, or how her magma suit is ugly, and so on. Shinji rarely whines. What he usually does is act all passive- aggressive, numbly following orders in way that makes it obvious he doesn't care. (Misato and Asuka both call him on it.)
So how come fans almost never complain about Asuka whining? Because she's Badass. She doesn't sit in a dark room and wallow; instead, she takes her annoyances out on other people, in a way which is kind of funny (at first). She follows the Rule of Cool. Being passive-aggressive is not cool, and it makes the rare times that Shinji actually whines stand out as annoying.
To take another example, both Rimmer and Lister (from Red Dwarf) would be a nightmare to have to put up with in real life. But audiences don't hate Lister like they do Rimmer, because Lister is funny and cool (from a distance, anyway), while Rimmer is usually only funny by accident, at his own expense.
Dr Dedman: You left out the other part about Asuka's bitching. She complains about all kinds of surface indignities. She never complains about her job (which is quite nasty, very scary, and does not bode well for her living to see 15 let alone 20). Think about "Magma Diver" we spend half the episode watching her complain about losing her vacation, her suit being ugly, the fact that they'll bomb them if they fail etc.. We also learn just how smart she is, which is important once things get nasty and she has to go deeper into the volcano. Without establishing her inteligence it makes her a cocky fool, showing that she has to "know" how dangerous it is to go deeper makes her absolutely fatalisticly crazy (almost like Rei, definitely not like Shinji).
Put another way, Shinji can be pushed to do "the right thing" (fight to save the world) because that's what he thinks others expect of him. Asuka will cheerfully do "the right thing" because it gratifies her self-image. Neither is classically "heroic", both are self-centered in their own way.
Jim: I'm removing this: "Examples: Literature
- Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is a series of ~1000 page doorstoppers. The author might have cropped the books down by at least a third if he took out the Wangst. Some readers feel that he should have... "
Johnny E: What's the difference between this and Wangst? It kind of looks like this is just "the effect in the audience that makes Wangst annoying". Does it need a Subtle Trope Distinction?
Madrugada: Wangst is what the character does. This is an audience reaction.
Madrugada again: I'd just like to say that this is one of the best write-ups for an audience reaction trope that I've seen. Detailed without being long-winded, clear, and above all, neutral in tone. Applause for the writer and editors,, whoever you were.
Torchbearer: um what happened to all the examples? I can't see any.
